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No Fahrvergnugen and Other Issues
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zoobyshoe
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:44 am    Post subject: No Fahrvergnugen and Other Issues Reply with quote

I have four different questions, but I'll bundle them together in one thread.

1.)The first is what is the purpose of dual ports? How is this better or different than a single port? What were they trying to accomplish in engineering the dual port engine? All I have been able to find out is that, in a certain year, they started issuing Bugs with a dual port 1600 engine. The implication is that this improves something, or solved a problem, but I haven't found anything that explains the solution or improvement it represents.

2.)The second issue is that I have no Fahrvergnugen. My 72 standard seems to have all the suspension niceties of a Radio Flyer toy wagon. I get a smooth ride only when the road I'm on happens to be perfectly smooth. Otherwise, it's pure rock n' roll, but not in a good way. I just put 4 new shocks on, and it did very little to improve this. Is this the way Beetles are? I can't believe they would ever have become so popular if it is. Also: on the highway any car bigger than mine that passes seems to threaten to blow me off the road with it's 'bow wave'. An SUV is as bad as a Mack truck in this regard. I was kinda pleased to find out my engine doesn't seem to mind doing 60 - 65, but this feeling of being blown out of my lane by passing vehicles has made me avoid highway driving.

3.) My title says it's a 1972, but the sticker by the door says Dec. 1971 ("Manufactured by VOLKSWAGENWERK AG 12/71"). Should I be looking for info about the '71 when I consult manuals, or are cars manufactured very late in one year considered to be cars from the next year?

4.)The fourth thing, related to the first perhaps, is that I don't exactly understand my exhaust system. I'll post a pic. It looks like the exhaust and muffler are not original. What would someone have been trying to accomplish by switching from the original to the one that's now there? My rear apron has the two grooves for the two tail pipes, but, as you can see, the current muffler is designed differently.

Here's the muffler:
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dual ports breath better at higher flows for a tweak more HP at speed. 1971 was the first year of the dual ports in Type 1s.

The model year starts on August 1 for the next year, so acar made on August 2, 1971 would be a 1972 model.

Make sure your tires are correctly inflated. 16-17 psi up front and 25-27 psi in the rear will get you close. If that doesn't help, a front end inspection would be in order. If you have gas shocks (as opposed to the stock oil filled shocks) it will make the ride a lot stiffer.

Yes that is an after marked muffler. I prefer the stock ones as they have the ability to provide heat to a stock center mounted carb. Pluse they give that "fweem" that we so love.

Here is an owner's manual


http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/72bug.php


Last edited by Randy in Maine on Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:12 am; edited 1 time in total
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TheAmazingDave
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The dual port engine flows air better. Better air flow = better power. This is especially true on the highway. Having used both engines, I can feel the difference in "high-speed" acceleration.

I haven't been in a Standard Bug in a long time, but I believe that's typical. The torsion beams provide a harsher ride than the Super's strut front end. That's the way it is. There's a video floating around of a Super driving next to a Standard on a bumpy road which illustrates this beautifully. Getting blown around is par for the course. These cars are very light. A bit of research about Beetles in a crosswind would have revealed this to you. Sorry you're learning the hard way. Lowering my Super a bit reduced the issue, but I still get tossed around a bit. Just expect it, and always have two hands on the wheel.

The next model year generally starts production late in the last model year. You have a 72.

Looks like you have a header on there. The mod was likely performance oriented. I'm guessing you no longer have heater boxes though. That's usually the trade-off, I reckon.
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60ragtop
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Do you have stock size tires, 165 80 15?
Did you put on gas charged shocks?
Stock type muffler
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I've restored a large number too, but I don't toot my horn quite as loud.


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maybe he just snapped cause his car sucked Wink
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morymob
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If u have 'bias ply tires & they r old ,worse combo, bp' tires wont drive worth squat if new, liketo follow cracks,uneven parts of road, short life most of them. How much play is in steering also steering part up front. Good tires with a bit more air, some trial/error to get it's best, good suspension, is about as good as it gets.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Think of the motor as a big air-pump, air comes in, and air goes out. To increase performance you need to get the air in and out quicker. The dual port head allows more air/fuel into the combustion chamber, more air/fuel, bigger bang = better performance. Next comes getting the air out. That happens through the exhaust. A freer flowing exhaust helps get the air/exhaust out quicker so the aftermarket exhaust helps do this. There is a lot more to engine performance but these are the basic principals.

As for handling, you might be expecting to much from a stock 40yo car. FWIW, the Fahrvergnugen campaign referred to later, water-cooled vw's, not the Beetles. That doesn't mean they are not fun to drive and will bring you a lifetime of joy, your criteria just may need to be adjusted.

Pick up the Muir Book "How to Keep your Volkswagen Alive" it's a great primer for a novice.

-jeffrey
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zoobyshoe
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the responses everyone! Much appreciated.

The tires are something I hadn't even considered. Here are some detail pictures, and a shot of my tire info sticker in the glovebox:

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Does this bug have the wrong tires on it?
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Multi69s
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes the bugs do get blown around, but if an SUV is doing it, the car needs a little help. The first step I would take is to get the car to an alignment shop that can do a 4 wheel alignment on the bug. These shops are getting rare though. Also, do you know if your sway bar is still attached, if you don't know, the shop can tell you. You may also have a lot of front end pieces worn out (ball joints, tie rod ends, steering dampener etc.), but the shop can tell you this as well.

In reality, your VW will never ride like a modern car. However, once everything is sorted out, you WILL experience Fahrvergnugen when you zip your 1,900lb car on the really twisty and winding roads Very Happy .
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zoobyshoe wrote:


Does this bug have the wrong tires on it?


No, 165R15 is fine. (Should be the same as 165-80R-15.)
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have read from several different sources, that installing gas-charged shocks will make a Bug ride rough. They all recommended the stock type ones. I guess the reason for this, is because the car doesn't weigh enough for the gas ones to operate correctly...probably the same reason it gets blown around on the road too. Smile
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jhicken
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Most gas shocks are stiffer, performance oriented shocks, by their nature you'll have a harsher ride because the beetle is a light weight car, specially in the front. If you are looking for comfort, stock Boge or Sachs shocks will do the trick.

-jeffrey
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zoobyshoe
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Randy in Maine wrote:
If you have gas shocks (as opposed to the stock oil filled shocks) it will make the ride a lot stiffer.

60ragtop wrote:
Did you put on gas charged shocks?

76VDubya wrote:
I have read from several different sources, that installing gas-charged shocks will make a Bug ride rough. They all recommended the stock type ones. I guess the reason for this, is because the car doesn't weigh enough for the gas ones to operate correctly...probably the same reason it gets blown around on the road too. Smile

I think we may have a winner for most likely Fahrvergnugen spoiler. The shocks I put on were cheap gas shocks. The ones I replaced were completely non-functioning, and I thought any functioning shock ought to be an improvement over that. After I switched them I was really unhappy to find there didn't seem to be much improvement at all.

I should explain my last car was a small truck, so I am used to a rougher ride, and also getting shouldered out of the way on the highway by the bow wave of big trailer trucks. This beetle I have is so much worse than that truck that I can't chalk that up to "that's the way they made 'em."

What do people recommend in an oil-filled shock?

As far as alignment goes, I pushed and pulled on everything I could when I had the front end jacked up to do the shocks and found nothing that seemed the least bit loose. And I didn't see anything that seemed to have been disconnected. There is about 1 and 1/2 inch steering wheel play, but I am pretty sure that's a steering box adjustment, and not due to loose joints down below. I do believe it needs an alignment, but don't think that is contributing much to the bouncing and lack of dampening.
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zoobyshoe
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jhicken wrote:
Most gas shocks are stiffer, performance oriented shocks, by their nature you'll have a harsher ride because the beetle is a light weight car, specially in the front. If you are looking for comfort, stock Boge or Sachs shocks will do the trick.

-jeffrey

The shocks that came with were Sachs. They had undercoating on the tops, which leads me to believe they'd been on the car since it was first sold. They must have bit the dust years ago.
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I always use something like these (on the front at least) to spare my teeth being jarred on every concrete cut....

http://www.busdepot.com/113413031e
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zoobyshoe
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sb001 wrote:
zoobyshoe wrote:


Does this bug have the wrong tires on it?


No, 165R15 is fine. (Should be the same as 165-80R-15.)


You notice the sticker says 155 SR 15. I have no idea what the numbers refer to, but 155 is not the same as 165. That's what I'm wondering about.
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[email protected]
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobody asked if it was a Super which are famous for having loose steering.

When someone mentioned alignment, they were suggesting that you point both wheels straight ahead, 1/8 inch toe in actually, and lined up perpendicular to the road. These things can go out of alignment. Also the steering box could be way loose allowing the front wheels to do their own thing.

Those tires are too old to be safe. Anyone notice the lack of aspect ratio. Maybe someone who trailers their car to shows might appreciate the antique tire but a tire more than a decade old, and yours are several decades old, should be replaced.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Randy in Maine wrote:
I always use something like these (on the front at least) to spare my teeth being jarred on every concrete cut....

http://www.busdepot.com/113413031e

Thanks. That looks good.

Any ideas about the rubber bushings on top of the buffer pin? Did you replace any of that? Mine doesn't look to be in such good shape.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 155 refers to 155mm tread width. Although you can still find 155mm tires, 165's are more common and cheaper. As noted before, your tires are old and that will also contribute to poor ride and handling. A new set of Boge or Sachs shocks and a set of tires will do wonders for the car.

Go to your local tire shop, he can order the tires and shocks. When they get in, have them install the shocks, mount and balance the tires and align everything. If he has problems locating the tires, check with your local VW parts retailer, they will be able to help.

-jeffrey
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zoobyshoe
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jhicken wrote:
The 155 refers to 155mm tread width. Although you can still find 155mm tires, 165's are more common and cheaper.

Thanks. So the 165 treads are a centimeter wider.

Quote:
As noted before, your tires are old and that will also contribute to poor ride and handling. A new set of Boge or Sachs shocks and a set of tires will do wonders for the car.

Go to your local tire shop, he can order the tires and shocks. When they get in, have them install the shocks, mount and balance the tires and align everything. If he has problems locating the tires, check with your local VW parts retailer, they will be able to help.

-jeffrey


I can order and change the shocks myself. Already done that once, and I'd like to tackle the alignment. One main point of getting the Beetle for me is they're one of the easiest cars for a do-it-yourselfer. Don't have the equipment to put new tires on or balance, so that's a job for a shop, yes.

I already have the Muir, incidentally. (In fact, I ended up with two copies.) I also have the Bentley, the Haynes, and the Chilton. I've adjusted the valves on this bug, changed the points and adjusted the dwell, did the timing and idle speed. Big improvement in the way it ran. A lot of miscellaneous other stuff, too.

I'm 59, but I never had a Beetle back in the day when they were still coming off the assembly line brand new. A large part of my problem is the one Hoover mentions in his blog, which is that I don't know what they're supposed to be like when everything's working.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
Those tires are too old to be safe. Anyone notice the lack of aspect ratio. Maybe someone who trailers their car to shows might appreciate the antique tire but a tire more than a decade old, and yours are several decades old, should be replaced.


Tires without aspect ratio are still made and available. In the first picture you can also plainly see the four digit date code which was introduced in 2000, prior to that they were three digit. Reading the code, the tires were made in the 13th week of 2003 -- still bloody old and should be replaced, but by no means are they "several decades old".
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