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moab762
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2014
Posts: 518
Location: El Segundo, CA
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 Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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| iowegian wrote: |
| moab762 wrote: |
For future reference ( I agree looks like this guy asked one question and bailed.) I purchased out of state from a Samba ad late last year. And I didn't go to very great lengths to protect myself. Laid down a deposit via cashiers check. I chose an independent garage to inspect the vehicle (other than what the owner suggested). Got a written report. We negotiated over repairs needed. And I sent another cashiers check for the balance. Overall I was pleased with the transaction. But the "VW expert" at the independent garage missed several things that came back to cost me somewhere between $500-$1000. I didn't get ripped off. But instead of a good deal it changed into a fair deal. Mind you I was only spending in the $7000-$8000 range. Still alot of money though. I am still considering small claims court. But we'll see.
I agree with those that say fly to see it. Especially in the 15k range. Or at the very least hire an independent vw mechanic or professional from the forums to look over the car and give you a report. I looked at another car 3 hrs from me and paid a local mechanic $200 to go with me. Saved me from buying a $7000 POS. There was more wrong than my less than educated eyes could see.
I like the attorney idea too. Let's them know your not one to be f'ed with either. Might make them think twice about hiding something. In the end hundreds of thousand of cars get sold this way these days. I sold my Yukon on ebay a month later. With no hitches. Cashiers check arrived and then the mover.
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This is exactly why I will never give an opinion in writing (even though I am doing it at no charge) in my particular area of expertise. |
Just to clarify. I wasn't talking about the steering box that needed replacing or things you can't possible know need repair. I'm talking about things like the horn not working. Which ended up in me needing to completely replace the steering wheel. Or the fact that the emergency flashers didn't work. $100 repair. Or the fact that the sunroof was broken. And in all the pics it was shown open. To cover up the fact that it didn't close right and was leaking inside the car in a major way. Which cost me several hundred to repair. The list goes on.
But they were all very obvious repairs that needed done. That were hidden by a well known VW mechanic in the area. Not things that are typically hidden and you can't possibly know. I've spent thousands upgrading and bringing the car back closer to stock. I'm not talking about any of those expenditures. I'm talking obvious things that a fifth grader could see was wrong with the car.
I'm not a litigious person. But at some point you have to protect yourself. Even if it's in reverse - after the fact. Not that I'm going to sue. I may never. As it's probably not worth the hassle from two states away.
I didn't expect the mechanic to perform a miracle. And look into his crystal ball and tell me exactly how much wear was on each cylinder. Just to look it over mechanically. And make sure everything was working properly and to do a compression check. I don't think it's out of line to expect things like the horn, emergency flashers or the sun roof seating properly to be checked and noted on a vehicle inspection. No matter how old the car is. And that's just off the top of my head. I know there were alot of other obvious problems with the car. Which is why I posted in this thread. Don't do like I did and just assume that your going to be protected by a third party inspection. If I had it to do all over again. I would fly there myself. |
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moab762
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2014
Posts: 518
Location: El Segundo, CA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr OnHolliday wrote: |
| iowegian wrote: |
This is exactly why I will never give an opinion in writing (even though I am doing it at no charge) in my particular area of expertise. |
This what contracts are for - not so much for the legal aspect but for documenting an agreement about what will be done and not done. I do this as an expert engineer for attorneys and others.
An example might be (solely as a quick idea here):
Will spend xx hours viewing and test driving a 19yy vw for mechanical issues (more definition needed). Zz tools will be used / not used...no disassembly will be performer. Due to time constraints no warantee is made that every issue will be discovered but all issues discovered will be disclosed. Only visually obvious body issues will be searched for. No opinions will be made about correctness of body parts or accessories. My potential liability is limited to the amount of my fee for this work of $ aa.
If you have a checklist of specific items to be evaluated it can also be included as part of the contract.
This all sounds kinda like a samba project to develop checklists for evaluation of mechanical issues, body issues and originality issues. Please - no line items for patina... |
I like this idea alot. Especially if it protects both the inspector and the hopeful buyer. A complete checklist would be great. Of what is and is not going to be checked. And if the result was negative or positive. Like headlights = Checked and working properly.
Actually that was another thing. One of the headlights was out. And it wasn't even caught on the inspection. That cost me quite a bit to to track down the wiring problem. I don't know what the guy was doing. But he wasn't performing even the most rudimentary checks on the vehicle. Had I had a contract and/or list it could have been avoided.
Again, be careful who you trust to inspect a vehicle. I mentioned it at the time I was purchasing (somewhere here on the forum) that it would be great if guys that offered an inspection service around the country were listed in a directory like the shipping people are. With reviews. Or something like that. It would be very helpful. Since then I have learned of several people in my area that I know I can trust to perform this task. At least three. One of which I have actually used with very positive results. And the other two I would not hesitate in recommending. Both of which have stellar reputations in the VW community. And are well known. But it takes alot of time to suss out where those people are in your area. |
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r1ver_rat
Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2015
Posts: 72
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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| iowegian wrote: |
You're wasting your breath here, guys.
The O.P. hasn't been back to the site since he joined and posed the question.
(but maybe he is on his way to Wichita right now.  ) |
I'm still here. Lol. I'm still interested in that bug. Unfortunately with my job schedule I can't just drive from Whittier Ca to Witchita Kansas. Yes, I could do a round trip flight. But the cost of flight and car rental would then put me over my budget for the car. Since its going to cost me 800 to also ship the car.
Rather would pay an independent inspector to inspect the car. Do any of ypu know of any in that area? I like the lawyer thing another member talked about. Need to see the cost of that. May be cheaper to get it inspected and pay for a lawyer than fly and car rental..
Thanks again for everyone's input! |
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r1ver_rat
Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2015
Posts: 72
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:49 pm Post subject: |
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Here are a few more pics that I requested that he sent me. What do you guys think? Not a trailer queen...
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r1ver_rat
Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2015
Posts: 72
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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moab762
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2014
Posts: 518
Location: El Segundo, CA
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| r1ver_rat wrote: |
| iowegian wrote: |
You're wasting your breath here, guys.
The O.P. hasn't been back to the site since he joined and posed the question.
(but maybe he is on his way to Wichita right now. ) |
I'm still here. Lol. I'm still interested in that bug. Unfortunately with my job schedule I can't just drive from Whittier Ca to Witchita Kansas. Yes, I could do a round trip flight. But the cost of flight and car rental would then put me over my budget for the car. Since its going to cost me 800 to also ship the car.
Rather would pay an independent inspector to inspect the car. Do any of ypu know of any in that area? I like the lawyer thing another member talked about. Need to see the cost of that. May be cheaper to get it inspected and pay for a lawyer than fly and car rental..
Thanks again for everyone's input! |
You might post a WTB in the services section of the classifieds. Or simply Google VW shops in the area. And see if you can find someone knowledgeable enough to do the job. Of course finding a recommendation on here would be best. |
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r1ver_rat
Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2015
Posts: 72
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22653
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:24 am Post subject: |
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Counterpoint
If you are going to litigate over the purchase of a old car toy, anyone on Samba is going to be loathe to help you. If you run a shop, no way you can afford to get dragged into someone else's lawsuit.
Get your own eyes and hands on the car to be bought and own it. If that isn't in your budget, don't buy, save your money until you can afford the TOTAL transaction cost.
If you total up the cost of a mechanic inspecting things down to working headlights, such an inspection will be more than the airfare.
Electrical inspection - when was the loom last replaced? More than 15 years - plan on a new loom. Budget accordingly.
on edit - sorry that sounded so harsh. Not enough roughage. I think the more elegant way to put it is it isn't like buying a toaster, and it isn't going to get any easier. The number of mechanics who really know these air cooled cars is dwindling fast.
_________________
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Tim Donahoe
Samba Member
Joined: December 08, 2012
Posts: 11740
Location: Redding, CA
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder that they seemingly painted the brake rotors, but not the interior of the rear apron (but that's no big deal).
The car looks great.
If it were me, I'd take a plane to see it--and warn the owner that you'll be looking it over with a fine tooth comb--then drive it back to California.
Or ... I'd look for a California bug.
Tim |
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hitest
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2008
Posts: 10296
Location: Prime Meridian, ID
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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I really don't get all of what I'm reading. If I pittlefarted over a headlight or horn not working, I'd never buy a single vintage car. Cracks in the engine case, crazy welds on frame horns, weird rust treatment techniques, evidence of fire, etc.- that's a real inspection.
I agree a little with Tim, and would add that if the logistics of a distance sale are what worries you- don't shop outside a one day drive from your house.
If I lived there- I'd inspect that car for a 6er. I am not in the market for a 14k beetle, therefore I would be impartial. You could (maybe) do a samba classified search within fifty miles of the seller's zip code- and call a couple of the parts sellers with the best feedback. See if one of them will inspect, or better still, if someone knows the car.
Either way you go- it is probably a fantastic car. It is also at the top of the market. There are no turnkey deals on that caliber of car- they all take effort to get, that's why it's in KS- and it's still for sale. If it were in AZ- it would be auctioned at BJ on drunk Thursday for 25k. 
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| EverettB wrote: |
I wonder what the nut looks like.
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'62 L390 151, '62 L469 117, '63 L380 113, '64 L87 311, '65 L512 265, '65 L31 SO-42, '66 L360 251, '68 L30k 141, '71 L12 113, '74 ORG 181
FU#5 |
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iowegian 
Samba Curmudgeon
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 9829
Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| hitest wrote: |
| Looking at his shop photos- he appears to be a mature, experienced and multi-disciplined car guy. I doubt he will be a problem at all. Also, he did advertise it internationally here, so he must expect a unique sale. It boils down to value. You are already comfy with the money he's asking. I think you can not easily duplicate that car for under $15k. If it were my deal, I'd find somebody here to check out the car and seller in person. Then talk money and a plane ticket. Driving it home would be pretty fun. |
First off----I don't have a dog in this fight.
But, based solely on his surname, the seller has to be a wonderful human being.  |
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Fred Foster
Samba Member
Joined: January 18, 2012
Posts: 1
Location: Wichita Kansas
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| Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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This Sunroof is getting a person inspection by buyers Family member. Thanks for the kind words from TS
Last edited by Fred Foster on Thu Mar 05, 2015 6:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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cory464
Samba Member
Joined: November 25, 2010
Posts: 659
Location: kokomo in
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 6:01 am Post subject: |
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| Fred Foster wrote: |
| This Sunroof is getting a person inspection by buyers Family member. Thanks for the kind word word from TS |
i'm glad to hear it, I hope it works out for both of you. 99.99% of the people in this business are good honest people, and most transactions are smooth. but those .01% really ruin it for everyone. |
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moab762
Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2014
Posts: 518
Location: El Segundo, CA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 11:05 am Post subject: |
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| cory464 wrote: |
| Fred Foster wrote: |
| This Sunroof is getting a person inspection by buyers Family member. Thanks for the kind word word from TS |
i'm glad to hear it, I hope it works out for both of you. 99.99% of the people in this business are good honest people, and most transactions are smooth. but those .01% really ruin it for everyone. |
I agree. I'm sure the guy is on the up and up. Hopefully it works out just fine. |
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r1ver_rat
Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2015
Posts: 72
Location: United States
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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| I forgot my cousins husband was born in Kansas and has family near Witchita. Now if the weather would straighten up so they can get there to look at it. Of the car looks like the pics, pulling the trigger. Crossing my fingers. |
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iowegian
Samba Curmudgeon
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 9829
Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| r1ver_rat wrote: |
| I forgot my cousins husband was born in Kansas and has family near Witchita. Now if the weather would straighten up so they can get there to look at it. Of the car looks like the pics, pulling the trigger. Crossing my fingers. |
Have you had voice contact (telephone) with the seller? If not, do so. You can tell a lot more about people with a live phone call than you can by eMail communication. I strongly suspect that especially in this case it will be worthwhile. For what it's worth, I have a good feeling about this deal. |
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r1ver_rat
Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2015
Posts: 72
Location: United States
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| Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| iowegian wrote: |
| r1ver_rat wrote: |
| I forgot my cousins husband was born in Kansas and has family near Witchita. Now if the weather would straighten up so they can get there to look at it. Of the car looks like the pics, pulling the trigger. Crossing my fingers. |
Have you had voice contact (telephone) with the seller? If not, do so. You can tell a lot more about people with a live phone call than you can by eMail communication. I strongly suspect that especially in this case it will be worthwhile. For what it's worth, I have a good feeling about this deal. |
Yes, I've been blowing up his phone all week talking to him. Lol |
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Dauz
Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2010
Posts: 1790
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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Get the seller to answer these questions first:
1. How many walkers have you killed?
2. Is it Fred Foster or is it Edwin Kloster?
3. Why? |
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iowegian
Samba Curmudgeon
Joined: February 16, 2005
Posts: 9829
Location: Somewhere between Dubuque and Keokuk
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Dauz wrote: |
Get the seller to answer these questions first:
1. How many walkers have you killed?
2. Is it Fred Foster or is it Edwin Kloster?
3. Why? |
I can only answer question #2. He calls himself "Foster" because "Kloster" is a really silly name.  |
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6Kabrio7
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2006
Posts: 2387
Location: California
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| Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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Personally I think spending a bunch of dough on a classic car especially one that looks like that and driving it cross country home is wack.
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67 Convertible July 67 Yukon Yellow
67 Sedan May 67 Zenith blue |
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