6 clutch cables in 8 months, and now first is chattering.

[Twitchycat13]

Hello everybody, I'm at my wits end here! I can't figure out for the life of me why my clutch cable keeps breaking. I follow every step to install it properly, works for a month, then the strands start snapping. It's breaking right where the bowden meets the body every time. I've tried all sorts of different size bowden and clutch cables but it happens the same with every combination. Right now I installed the stock ones for my year (1962) that I got from Wolfsburg West and I'm getting a lot of chatter in first like the bowden is too short, but I'm perplexed because I get zero chatter going in reverse. Another thing is that unless I use a shorter clutch cable I have to adjust the nut on the end all the way down until there's no more thread before I get the proper amount of play in the pedal.

This symptoms lead me to think it may be a couple of things:

One of the clutch tube mounts in the tunnel has come loose causing the cable to not have the right length and possibly be causing it too rub and break where the bowden meets the body.

Also maybe my transmission is going out because of the chatter in first and not reverse, the chatter is so bad that it pops out of gear making me have to skip first altogether and use second from a stop. It pops out of gear when I stop accelerating in the high RPM's of first and second also.

Or maybe my transmission mounts are completely shot and even with the bowden the shaking is destroying the clutch cable.

Thoughts?
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[bluebus86]

the tranny / motor mounts are pretty easy to check out, both visually and by grabbing the tail pipe and rocking up and down, excessive motion relative to the car body would indicate bad mounts.

a broken tube in the tunnel cold cause the clutch to be adjusted wrongly and that might cause the clutch cable to be over stretched when the peddle is fully depressed. make sure the adjustment is correct. The cable can break if the cable is over stretched. if you can keep depressing the peddle after the clutch is fully disengaged, then that might be the problem, if so give the cable more free play. that may be all you need to do.

good luck
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[drscope]

If the cables are all breaking at the same spot where the bowden tube meets the body then it would seem that this is where your trouble is.

Remove the cable and the bowden tube and have a good close look at whats going on there.

Sometimes things get a little rusty and start to collapse at that point. You may need to do some reinforcing of the area to make sure the clutch tube and the bowden tube are both fitting together straight. Sounds like there is some sort of an angle issue going on there that is rubbing on the cable in that spot.
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[rockerarm]

Hi, it sounds as if the metal tube where it exits the pan and the Bowden tube attaches could have some wear. It could be a sharp edge or the cable has "sawed" a small groove here. My daily driver '58 had this issue. I would replace the cable every year or so. The tunnel had openings where tube repairs had been previously done. Finally, the welds were not strong and broke free and viewing the end of the tube convinced me to replace the entire clutch tube. This eliminated the cable replacement every year or so.
In addition, assure your trans to chassis ground is perfect, as I have seen numerous cars suffer clutch cable woes when the ground strap is suspect.
Finally, don't start the car with the clutch depressed and/or sit at a traffic lite this way. these issues are not new and have been around for 20 years.
Hope this helps, Bill.

[Erik G]

as mentioned above, check the electrical ground strap to the transmission, make sure it's clean, the connections are clean, etc. I have seen this cause issues, basically, your clucth cable acting as the ground for the car, and it'll wear out a clucth cable fast

several people has not believed that, until they change their ground strap and never have a problem again
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[Twitchycat13]

Thanks for the advice everyone! I just replaced the bowden tube with a longer one for more bend and inspected the ground strap and transmission mounts. When I'm driving I only ever push the pedal until just past where the clutch disengages, so I don't think that's it. Good thought though! I do keep the clutch down when I'm starting though so that could be an issue, I'll stop that! I inspected the tunnel where the clutch cable comes out the rear for grooves or sharp edges and didn't find anything, sadly. I could have been more thorough though, maybe taking a pencil and rubbing it in there to see if it cuts it up.

First up the ground strap. It looked intact just a bit dirty, so I took it off and wire brushed all the contacts to clean it up. Is this the proper place it was mounted at? (This is before I cleaned it up.)

Now the transmission mounts. I don't have much experience to go by but I think they look pretty bad. Here's the front one. Is there supposed to be the gap you can see between the chassis and the mount?

Here's the other side, awful?

Now here's the left rear, doesn't look too bad but I think it might be a different material than the right.

And the right. I think this might be an issue, the bottom bolt head is missing and the threads are still in there! Plus you can see where the mount itself is coming out of its seat compared to the left one. Is this an issue that can be fixed when I replace the mounts, are the threads just stuck in the mount?

Another thing I found was that the bottom right bolt holding the engine on was a little loose, tightened it up and checked the others which were stil good.

Be gentle, the mounts are from the previous owner . I'll report back tonight after I take her for a spin.
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[Eric&Barb]

Those rubber mounts are toast. Make sure to get good quality ones, and avoid having to do this again inside a year. Advise you get normal rubber ones and not the pretty red ones that make your interior nice and loud....
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[vdubmyk]

Front trans mount is shot and the right one is bad also. Change out all 3 mounts and while you have the coupler inspection plate off, check that the clutch tube isn't broken. The front mount can be the cause of all your issues though.
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[Dr OnHolliday]

Make sure all the engine to transaxle bolts are tight while your down there.
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[KTPhil]

You can check the cable tube easily only with the engine and tranny out of the way, so be thorough while you have them out. Try prying at it and push from the rear and see if you get any movement. I've been lucky and haven't had to do this, so maybe others who have can chime in and tell you just what to look for.

It's probably those mounts though, especially the front one, since movement there will make any sharp point at the Bowden/tube joint act as a saw. It will also explain your bucking.

[drscope]

Yep, you found your chattering issue.

Keep in mind that those 3 rubber mounts are the only things keeping the engine/transmission assembly in place. It's time they get replaced.

Do yourself a favor and try to find a good German mount! Some of the aftermarket stuff doesn't last very long and by all means stay away from the pretty, colorful, urethane mounts unless you want to do this job again next year!

The easiest way to tackle this is to take the engine out and you will need to do that anyway to replace the rear mounts.

The transmission doe's not need to come out, it just needs to be moved back. So once you have the front mount unbolted from the car and the nose of the transmission, you will need to remove the two big bolts on the ends of the frame horns.

Remove them ONE at a time and as you remove each one, slide something into the hole to support the transmission. I have a pair of round tire irons then slip in there nicely and this is what I normally use, but some long extensions will also do the job, or even small pieces of pipe.

That allows you to slide the trans mission back without having to support it and fight a jack.

You do NOT need to remove the axles from the spring plates or even take the wheels off!

A few things to keep in mind. When replacing the rear mounts, pay close attention to the bolts that go from the mount into the bell housing. If they are long, make sure you put the HEAD of the bolt on the bell housing side. Otherwise sometimes you end up with those bolts hitting the flywheel. Simple things but that can lead to a very frustrating day.

Also, when putting the 2 big bolts back into the ends of the frame horns, make SURE you have them started in the hole BY HAND before you go wrenching them in with a tool!

It is REALLY easy to cross thread them and you can rip the threads out of the frame horns before you even realize you have a problem! So make sure both of them are started well by hand before you try to tighten them.

Another thing i would do is to take your new Bowden tube and do a little work to it on the end that goes into the body where you have been having trouble. Most of them have a square bored hole where the cable goes in. What i mean is the end of the hole is a square angle to the tube.

You may want to relieve that hole on that edge just a little to do away with that sharp edge and make the hole a little round so you don't have that sharp edge of the hole working on the cable.

I think a lot of your cable issue is related to your mounts being bad. When the front mount starts to go bad, it allows the front of the transmission to raise up when you begin to release the clutch. That movement puts a lot of flexing on the Bowden tube.

As the front mount gets worse, you will sometimes notice the rpm's increasing as you let the clutch out even though you don't have your foot on the gas pedal. This is because the engine is rocking enough that it is actually pulling the throttle cable open as the engine rotates down and the nose of the transmission rotates up.

Eventually that front mount is going to break completely. At that point this becomes extremely violent and the nose of the transmission will be banging against the floor of the car. It's almost impossible to get the car to move because of the shaking.

If you have been paying attention, you may have also noticed the shifter moving as you change the amount of pressure on the gas pedal. That is also because the transmission mounts are allowing things to move around.

Good luck with it! It's really not a bad job if you have a set of jack stands and a floor jack along with some other basic tools.
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[Twitchycat13]

Thank you drscope for the very thorough reply! You described all of the issues I was having, even the accelerating by itself part. I will be sure to get the best quality mounts I can find, none of the aftermarket stuff. Is the bolt that's broken off in the rear right mount going to be an issue or should I be able to get it out when I'm down there?

What else can I replace while I have the engine out? I know of the throwout bearing, might as well so i don't have to take the engine out again anytime soon.
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[pwmcguire]

[pwmcguire]

[drscope]

The broken bolt on the transmission mount won't be an issue. I believe it's actually a stud and it comes on the new mount if I remember correctly.

And yes, a bad ground strap can cause issues with the clutch cable.

If the ground strap is missing or bad, the engine/transmissions only way to ground to the chassis is through the clutch and throttle cables since everything is mounted in rubber. So the clutch cable can become a point of bad and arcing grounds between the cable and the cable tube. Sooner or latter all that arcing melts through a strand of the clutch cable and things go down hill from there pretty quickly.
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[Twitchycat13]

I am so happy to be finally done with this issue, can't wait to drive it with new mounts!
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[vdubmyk]

Looking at the "broken" stud pic, it's actually just a 8mm bolt and. It that go through there. Take an old bolt from the other side of the mount and match it up at a hardware store.
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[Twitchycat13]

Wow the difference is night and day, I love my beetle again! No more clunking when I accelerate, I can cruise at a constant speed now, shifter doesn't move when I accelerate, throttle linkage doesn't fall off anymore, even sounds better when I'm driving, and I'm sure no more clutch cable woes!

I replaced all of the mounts with the Rhino kit, as well as the throwout bearing since I had the engine out and I have no idea how old the last one was. It wasn't too difficult with a friend but we definitely had to pull the transmission pretty far out to get the old one off. The metal backing plate on the old front mount had come loose from the mounting rubber too haha.

I gotta say too, that engine bolt by the clutch arm is a real pain to tighten, as well as the nose cone bolts on the transmission. I don't see how anyone could get a socket or even a wrench in that tight space!

I also bought a longer clutch arm from Bruce, and jeez oh man how incredible the difference is! The clutch pedal went from being difficult and tiring, to like cutting butter with a knife! It's still tripping me out how easy it is to press, requires very little pressure and will save my leg =]

The new clutch arm:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=801962
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[Bruce]