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drakonis Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2012 Posts: 251 Location: Granite Falls, WA
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:39 pm Post subject: engine temps |
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so out cruising with the wife today and watching my gauges. Installed i have oil pressure and temp both vdo. CHT is a dakota digital. we were cruising down the highway at about 55/60 and i kept noticing the cht would climb to about 400. is this normal? my oil temp was barely 150. oil is measured off the oil drain plug. engine is stock dp 1600. svda dist. is this normal? ambient was about 55 to 60 today. _________________ 71 Bay. "ketchikan" |
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drakonis Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2012 Posts: 251 Location: Granite Falls, WA
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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this is in my 71 bay btw. _________________ 71 Bay. "ketchikan" |
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PITApan Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2014 Posts: 1058 Location: Northern Colorado
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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Ever read Gene Bergs opinion on cheap gauges?
What was the difference between cold and hot oil pressure? |
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Heathintexas Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2011 Posts: 135 Location: Berlin Germany
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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I wouldn't say lethal, but for that speed and ambient temperature I would say kind of high. What kind of gas are you running? Mine hates anything lower than 91 (r+m)/2. _________________ http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582117 |
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drakonis Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2012 Posts: 251 Location: Granite Falls, WA
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:51 pm Post subject: |
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PITApan wrote: |
Ever read Gene Bergs opinion on cheap gauges?
What was the difference between cold and hot oil pressure? |
cold i do believe around 55 or so at 3500 rpm. hot it was around 40 and above at 3500 rpm.
the head temps are what worry me. its seemed down a bit on power today too. carb is junk i found out recently. throttle shaft is worn. idles like poop. I just did brakes on the back and had to readjust due to one dragging a bit.
As far as gas i just put 10 gallons of shell 89 octane. maybe i need some good octane booster. i may have to go find some trick octane booster (best stuff ive found, others are crap) i suspect the gas is whats the problem with power. its that oxygenated crap they sell in the winter. will try to find the non oxygenated stuff if i can. _________________ 71 Bay. "ketchikan" |
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Heathintexas Samba Member
Joined: September 24, 2011 Posts: 135 Location: Berlin Germany
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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Yea. The dirty and worn out carb would definitely shoot those temps up. that's going to cause the mixture to be very lean, which can fry an engine. Also, the precision german machines are very picky when it comes to gas. Put the good stuff in it. _________________ http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=582117 |
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PITApan Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2014 Posts: 1058 Location: Northern Colorado
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:58 pm Post subject: |
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drakonis wrote: |
PITApan wrote: |
Ever read Gene Bergs opinion on cheap gauges?
What was the difference between cold and hot oil pressure? |
cold i do believe around 55 or so at 3500 rpm. hot it was around 40 and above at 3500 rpm.
the head temps are what worry me. its seemed down a bit on power today too. carb is junk i found out recently. throttle shaft is worn. idles like poop. I just did brakes on the back and had to readjust due to one dragging a bit.
As far as gas i just put 10 gallons of shell 89 octane. maybe i need some good octane booster. i may have to go find some trick octane booster (best stuff ive found, others are crap) i suspect the gas is whats the problem with power. its that oxygenated crap they sell in the winter. will try to find the non oxygenated stuff if i can. |
If it isn't knocking your octane is fine for how you are set up. If the throttle shafts are leaking it's running lean which will hurt power. Not a lot to do---richen the idle, fix the carb.
Winter gas may have less energy but cold winter air (6oF ain't cold) will give more power.
Did you check calibration on your gauges?
http://www.geneberg.com/article.php?ArticleID=239 |
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drakonis Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2012 Posts: 251 Location: Granite Falls, WA
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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no i did not check calibration on the oil temp gauge. the cht gauge i bought the best i could find. rattwell recommends it. dakota digital.
my oil pressure gauge is spot on and tested against a mechanical gauge. both read exactly the same. so its good.
carbs not dirty. just did a clean out and new gaskets and valves and such. rebuilt i guess. but discovered it was bad after getting crappy idle quality. as soon as the tax money gets here im buying a set of kadrons and going from there.
maybe those will fix my lean power and hot heads problem. _________________ 71 Bay. "ketchikan" |
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PITApan Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2014 Posts: 1058 Location: Northern Colorado
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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drakonis wrote: |
no i did not check calibration on the oil temp gauge. the cht gauge i bought the best i could find. rattwell recommends it. dakota digital.
my oil pressure gauge is spot on and tested against a mechanical gauge. both read exactly the same. so its good.
carbs not dirty. just did a clean out and new gaskets and valves and such. rebuilt i guess. but discovered it was bad after getting crappy idle quality. as soon as the tax money gets here im buying a set of kadrons and going from there.
maybe those will fix my lean power and hot heads problem. |
Next time you change oil, check your oil temp gauge at 212F.
I doubt ratwell knows other CHTs. Where is he anyway? maybe get a thermocouple plug to put on your wire (if you don't have one in the engine compartment) and check the temp on a fluke 51 or 52. You can find them used for $50 or so. If you are using a ring type pickup under a plug you can check that at 212F also. |
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drakonis Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2012 Posts: 251 Location: Granite Falls, WA
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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yeah using the ring thermocouple. guess ill be making a pot of boiling water in the garage. lol. _________________ 71 Bay. "ketchikan" |
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udidwht Samba Member
Joined: March 06, 2005 Posts: 3779 Location: Seattle, WA./ HB, Ca./ Shizuoka, Japan
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:31 pm Post subject: |
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How is the ring sender under the plug? _________________ 1972 Westy Hardtop/Type-4 2056cc
96mm Biral AA P/C's~7.8:1CR
Headflow Masters New AMC 42x36mm heads w/Porsche swivel adjusters
71mm Stroke
73 Web Cam w/Web solids
Dual 40mm IDF Webers - LM-2 - 47.5 idles/125 mains/190 air corr./F11 tubes/28mm Vents - Float height 10.45mm/Drop 32mm
Bosch SVDA w/Pertronix module (7.5 initial 28 total @ 3400rpm)
Bosch W8CC plugs
Pertronix Flamethrower 40K coil
S&S 4-1 w/Walker QP 17862
3 rib 002 Trans
185R14 Hankook tires |
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drakonis Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2012 Posts: 251 Location: Granite Falls, WA
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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sender ring is against head. then plug washer and plug. in that order. all brand new btw. just installed last week. _________________ 71 Bay. "ketchikan" |
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Brian Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012 Posts: 8340 Location: Oceanside
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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harbor freight has those IR guns for pretty cheap. I use it all the time. I think Colin is always using it too, and he never uses any gauges on his buses.
When you use cheap gauges, you have to find whats normal for you. Especially freaking VDO gauges. Your CHT sounds right to me, but then again I don't use gauges. _________________ Wash your hands
'69 Bug
'68 Baja Truck
'71 Bug
'68 Camper
Only losers litter |
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drakonis Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2012 Posts: 251 Location: Granite Falls, WA
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Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:20 am Post subject: |
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I own a raytek temp gun. I used to race gas rc offroad. bought for that. still have it almost 15 years later. still works great. I do trust it. ill use it ont he heads and see what readings i get. maybe pull the dipstick and check its temp when hot. _________________ 71 Bay. "ketchikan" |
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curtis4085 Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2011 Posts: 4806 Location: Colorado
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Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 4:55 am Post subject: |
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Have you checks your timing?
I would suspect as mentioned above that you may be running lean. A dumpy idle is one symptom that suggest this. _________________ Special Thanks to:
Headflow Masters - Vista, CA
www.headflowmasters.com |
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madmike Samba Member
Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 5292 Location: Atlanta,Michigan
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Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:08 am Post subject: |
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Check points?
Timing like ^ he said
prolly carb though?
Please don't do the K-duds, fine some nice 40 IDF's 10 times the carb,then kadrons(no bushings to wareout ) _________________ 'Black Ice'Drag Buggy 'Turbo'
Rail Buggy 1915 turbo
76 Drag/Street bug 2180cc 'Turbo' 11:85 @113 mph"If I go any faster I'll burn up the Hamster" ,gets 28 mpg. also 10/09/22 11.90 @115 mph
"If I'm ever on Life Support,UNPLUG Me, Then Plug me back In see if that Works" |
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Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
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Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:16 am Post subject: |
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The Dakota Digital gauges are actually pretty good. That Berg write up is quite dated, although certainly applied back in the early 70's.
I would be sending that carb off to have the throttle shafts rebuilt if it were mine. Also keep an eye on the entire cooling system to make sure it is everything it can be.
Correct timing based on your distributor please, after checking the dwell angle of the points. Keep an eye on the valve adjustments.
Unless you have some sort of high compression set up 89 grade is not really helping you any. This thing should run fine on 87 octane.
That laser thermometer won't tell you much about the CHTs. |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50332
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Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 8:38 am Post subject: |
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If you have even a minor combustion gas leak past the ring terminal your gauge will read very high even when your CHT's are normal. |
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Esher127 Samba Member
Joined: August 26, 2010 Posts: 607 Location: Staunton, VA
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Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:18 am Post subject: |
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I like the part of this thread where OP buys a very good CHT gauge and everyone beats up on him about having a cheap gauge.
Anyway, my head temp gauge stays around 340-350 most of the time, but I've seen it climb into the 400 range on mountains or if I'm really pushing it on the interstate at 70mph for a long time.
I would make sure your fan isn't blocked by something and check your flaps before you leap to engine problems. Best to start the process of elimination with the easy stuff, anyway. _________________ 1970 Westfalia Pop-Top |
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drakonis Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2012 Posts: 251 Location: Granite Falls, WA
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Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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well as far as cooling goes. im going to buy the correct tins and veins and all the internals so it cools correctly. right now the flaps are wired open as i dont have a thermostat. it came that way. i dont drive it much so right now its not too big a deal. im going to fix it right. as for the carbs i cant spend too much. i like the k-dogs but i may go with 40mm webber/hpmx type. right now its a 1600 but soon it will transform into a 1915 or a 2054. most likely a 2054. for right now im going to concentrate on the correct tins for cooling and the t stat. The carb situation im not sure a set of 40mm hpmx carbs would work well. im thinking it alot of carb for just a 1600. after i build a new bigger engine then i could see it working well. more thoughts please. and dont beat me up about a gauge being cheap. The dakota digital was not cheap. lol. _________________ 71 Bay. "ketchikan" |
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