PSA - Nord-Lock your drive shaft (CV) bolts

SGKent · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:26 pm Post subject:

There are millions of buses that traveled hundreds of millions of miles without a CV coming loose. The culprit may be buying other then Lobro CV joints, that or a bad batch of bolts. Were they allen head or star head?

BAP Geon used to be a good line, however I don't know where they get their current inventory from.
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Brian · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:30 pm Post subject:

I've been told many times; torque the bolts, check after a few hundred and if none are loose, forget they exist.
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'68 Baja Truck
'71 Bug
'68 Camper

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carlvon · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 2:31 pm Post subject:

raygreenwood · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 3:30 pm Post subject:

I have used Nordlock on a wide range of equipment. They are identical in every function to Schnoor.....just a different form to get around patents...and they cost quite a bit more. 0 adb advantage.

Just use the correct schnoor washer and use a new one each time. I buy them by bags of 100 for under $12 a bag.
They are hardened ....and they come in specific thicknesses for correct torque ranges. You can get them so thick that the torque required to activate the bellville effect can literally, snap a CV bolt before you can apply enough torque to deflect the bellville washer.

CV joint kits long ago used to come with new bolts, plates and schnoor washers.

I have never had one fail. The Norlock washers are no different than Schnoor. They are both hardened, serrated both sides and are bellville washers using a combination of "tension" and metal bite to lock instead of thread friction alone.

Dont fall for the " Nordlock uses a double bellville method"...line of sales BS. The amount of tension for bolt type and diameter is specified.....and is what decides what thickness of bellville washer you use.....and how much tension it has.

So unless Nordlock washer pairs have excessive tension....which I know they dont.....that means each half provides 50% of the required tension.

In that respect.....it means it has no more tension than a Schnoor washer....and they are both hardened....and both have serrations top and bottom side.

If the serrations against the CV joint locking plate fail to bite on either a Schnoor or a Nordlock....the bolt Can still spin if the bellville tension is incorrect.

If the serrations against the bolt head fail to bite on either a schnoor or a Nordlock and the bellville tension is incorrect.....the bolt can still turn.

The knly way the Bellville tension can be incorrect....is if you reuse a used washer or buy the wrong thickness washer.......or the washers provided are the wrong material. They make them in hardened steel, 18-8 and 316 stainless..which is not for this application and zinc plate...which is also not for this application.

Trust me.....the locking function on the Nordlock is 100% worthless is any of the above have been done...ie....meaning reusing a washer or using the wrong one.

If you abide by those rules...the schnoor washers never fail. I mjust, saying dont waste your money. Ray

PITApan · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:06 pm Post subject:

Carl, Your knowledge of some simple (I think) engineering leaves you at the mercy of the marketers. I cannot help. I'm sorry.

I do suggest you check your torque wrenches and techniques. Your failure might have been nothing more than you thought you got correct torque on them but in reality it was too little. There are a number of causes of this. Wouldn't be the first time it's happened.

The reason I suggest this, aside from the fact it does happen, is your comment about always lubricating the threads of fasteners. Nothing could be farther from the truth and a great many threads are specified to be assembled bone dry. It is a specification that is usually called out. That you do not know this reveals something about the depth of your mechanical experience. So I say, without any intent to insult or belittle you, and I think it might sting some, but double check your tools and methods. If there is an error there you will get bitten again and again. I'd rather risk some hurt feelings than abandon you to that fate.

PITApan · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 6:12 pm Post subject:

TomWesty · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:18 pm Post subject:

Brian · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:25 pm Post subject:

boothead · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 7:48 pm Post subject:

An interesting PowerPoint presentation from Schnorr:

http://www.schnorr.com/downloads/technical-informa...al-en.html

According to Schnorr, Nord Lock and Schnorr serrated lock washers perform about the same (Schnorr says theirs are slightly better than Nord Lock--would you expect them to say anything else?). Both Schnorr and Nord Lock WAY out-perform other types of lock washers. Take a look at the wave washer results on the graph, maybe we would be better off with flat washers vs wave washers?

Or maybe no washer (vs spring washers):

http://www.boltscience.com/pages/helicalspringwashers.htm

In any case, even Schnorr acknowledges that Nord Lock washers are a viable alternative for lock washers. More expensive perhaps, but to each his own.

Tcash · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 9:26 pm Post subject:

Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50336

airschooled · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:45 pm Post subject:

Brian · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:47 pm Post subject:

I was thinking playdough would have been okay too. Or a can of degreeser and etc.
_________________
Wash your hands

'69 Bug
'68 Baja Truck
'71 Bug
'68 Camper

Only losers litter

PITApan · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:25 pm Post subject:

raygreenwood · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:56 pm Post subject:

Randy in Maine · Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:22 am Post subject:

I just use the "blow" gizmo on my compressed air line to clean out the heads. Carb cleaner also works.

It is a bus man. It was born to be driven.

tootype2crazy · Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 7:42 am Post subject:

One might also add to this thread by stating that utter precision must be used when packing and installing the joint. Tape must be put over the holes in the joint while it is packed so that no grease gets in the holes. The mating surfaces must be totally clean. Absolutely no grease can get on the bolts as they are going in. The grease is moly meaning it contains solids, and as I understand it if it gets on the mating surfaces or threads it can distort torque readings and cause things to loosen up later.
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air-cooled or nothing for me
1978 Sunroof Deluxe Bus (daily driver)
1978 Transporter (mom's, making into a camper)
1970 Single Cab 2.1 turbo/EFI 6 Rib, 78 front beam, vanagon backing plates on rear (project)
2001 GTI VR6 (wife's)

raygreenwood · Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:06 am Post subject:

Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50336

Abscate · Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:25 am Post subject:


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PSA - Nord-Lock your drive shaft (CV) bolts
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