Engine compartment confusion

ConcreteAce · Posted: Mon Mar 02, 2015 10:27 pm Post subject: Engine compartment confusion

I was searching for the best replacement panel for the battery tray on the passenger side of my 1964 vert. I was shocked to find that none of the major suppliers had the passenger side but most had the drivers side. I then searched on here and found the Gab-Fab battery tray. During my search I noticed a different pressing in the left side of my battery tray. Since I am going back to stock with this build I am concerned about the pressing being different.

So I then began to search build threads of 63 and 64 verts, I found very few pictures I could reference. I did find a couple of build threads on coups and those tray's match Gab-Fab pressing, but they do not match what I have. So I then did a picture search in the gallery hoping to find a 64 vert with its engine lid open. I found these pictures when I searched 1964 convertible:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The pressing matches Gab-Fab. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1157244

This is what my driver side looks like:

Now I did find other convertibles that had the same pressing as mine, so I am assuming that the 64 could have either pressing, maybe a late /early situation. Here are the pictures I found that are like mine:

So to my question: If there indeed was two different driver driver side pressing was there two different passenger side pressings? I have yet to find a picture without a battery so I have no reference point to go by.

Here is my passenger side it is an obvious replacement:

_________________
Ethan Dunlap
Spring, Texas

'51 Deluxe
'61 Build
'68 Turbo Diesel Baja
'64 Ghia Vert
'61 Baja Build

c21darrel · Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 11:09 am Post subject:

Hope this helps...
Battery went to driver side in 66
Its a common rust/battery acid eaten location so many have been repaired/replaced.

1966
'66 Model Year (Ch# 146 000 001 thru 146 1021 300) August '66 thru July '67

* Dash has 2 inch wide, or so, plastic chrome decorative trim mounted longitudinally thru center of dash. Remainder of metal dash is still body color. Only year to use this trim.
* Key/ignition switch is located consistently to the right of steering column for the first time.
* Hub caps become flattened, like later style. Earlier cars used a 1/2 Moon style cap.
* Ash tray stops being dash mounted on passenger side, and becomes chrome, or black vinyl add-on hung below center of dash.
* Front end first uses ball joint suspension, instead of venerable king pins.
* Battery now on driver's of rear compartment.
_________________
GhiaBuild
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=481184
1967 DC build
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=693583&highlight=67+dc
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

Rome · Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 5:48 pm Post subject:

ConcreteAce · Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:41 pm Post subject:

Rome that is exactly the information I was looking for. Would you happen to have a photo of your driver side with the late panel? I do have the type of front turn signals you talked about and my vin is 617XXXX so it is definitely a late 64 ghia. Thanks again!
_________________
Ethan Dunlap
Spring, Texas

'51 Deluxe
'61 Build
'68 Turbo Diesel Baja
'64 Ghia Vert
'61 Baja Build

ConcreteAce · Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:47 pm Post subject:

NWGhiaGuy · Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 7:38 am Post subject:

There's always the option of using good used OG metal. I just cut engine metal out of a late '64 last night. Haven't taken pictures to post in the classifieds yet, but if you PM me, I'll try to do it this afternoon. I wanted to clean it with a wire wheel first to make sure it would be a solid replacement.

Rome · Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 4:39 pm Post subject:

ConcreteAce · Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:43 pm Post subject:

Great pictures Rome!

_________________
Ethan Dunlap
Spring, Texas

'51 Deluxe
'61 Build
'68 Turbo Diesel Baja
'64 Ghia Vert
'61 Baja Build

Rome · Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:43 pm Post subject:

Concrete- you beat me to it in providing details. So I just went back end removed my photos so that you can keep them in your response.

Here you go. I also added the dimensions on the left side for general reference.

Both side panels are factory original, with original L87 pearl white paint. Neither has been repaired. The right panel is exposed due to relocating the battery to under the rear seat's right half; to make room for dual carbs.

There are supposed to be two pieces comprising the left and right vertical sound insulation panels. The outer one closest to the open wheelwell chamber is a "backing" made of stiff cardboard. It must be in place so that the more flexible sound mat leans against it. The sound mat is what is normally seen. Both are held in place by the metal body clips that bend in against the sound mat. On the left side, the sound mat is missing because it decayed over the years. The panel on there now is the inner cardboard "backer". That's why the rear section does not wrap around to the edge of the lid opening like on the right side. The sound mat (and the hidden cardboard inner backer) is in place on the right side.

ConcreteAce · Posted: Sat Mar 07, 2015 12:56 pm Post subject:

Thanks again Rome, Its funny I happened to see the pics on the main page before you had a chance to post them. NWGhiaGuy has some OG metal that I might pick up to solve my issue. As it is there are no other avenues unless I fabricate the panel or just use the earlier panel that is sold.
_________________
Ethan Dunlap
Spring, Texas

'51 Deluxe
'61 Build
'68 Turbo Diesel Baja
'64 Ghia Vert
'61 Baja Build

ConcreteAce · Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 2:49 pm Post subject:

Thanks for all the help with this issue! Rome I did not realize that the opening to the fender area was covered from the factory, since I am shooting for as factory as I can get I will need to either buy the stiff cardboard and sound deadener, if the repop or figure out someway to make it. This car will be for my wife to enjoy so I want to keep things as correct as I am able, even down to a stock 40H.

NWGhiaGuy thanks for the great price on the OG metal to replace the battery section.
_________________
Ethan Dunlap
Spring, Texas

'51 Deluxe
'61 Build
'68 Turbo Diesel Baja
'64 Ghia Vert
'61 Baja Build

Loren · Samba Member Joined: January 10, 2004 Posts: 1701

Have you tried contacting Gab-Fab? Danny makes these panels in shop and might be able to modify his dies to accomidate the change. I believe the only difference is the recessed area in the center?

ConcreteAce · Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 4:31 pm Post subject:

Loren · Samba Member Joined: January 10, 2004 Posts: 1701

I think the blank is the same, it is just the depression in the middle that is different (correct me if I am wrong). I have seen Danny's dies and they are quite simple. He might consider making a seperate die for later sections, especially if there is a demand. I have a really nice engine bay section from a late 64 Ghia in the garage that I could take down to Danny for exact measurements. Here is the panel I have:

Rome · Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 5:19 pm Post subject:

The earlier style depressions in the side panels are significantly larger overall than on the '64 1/2. The earlier style does indeed have a multiple-contour inner depression instead of the simple flat depression of the later style. Without taking measurements of the early style, it's difficult to make objective comparisons. But the Gab-Gab panels certainly appear to be excellent and accurate repro's.

As to the side panel inner backers, you might need to shop around for the correct materials. There is a decent looking set of "repro" panels but I don't know if the set includes the large vertical side pieces.

(edit- yes it does)- http://www.karmannghia.com/viewDetail.asp?strMasterCat=&idproduct=1666

I don't know if those are stiff enough to stand up by themselves along the large open side areas. The cardboard backer needs to be stiff and weatherproof, and fit closely. Maybe try a marine supply for such material? Glue two thinner pieces together for the needed stiffness? Color does not matter since the backer is not seen, but if you have a choice; the original color is a dull black like that on my car's left side.

As to the actual sound mat, a friend who has a fantastic '65 Ghia cabrio which he bought new, told me years ago that the insulation from the back of old refrigerators (town dump) came close in texture and thickness to the Ghia's. The thickness on the Ghia's sound mat is about 1/2". If you do find a large enough section from a 'fridge or other appliance that is not too torn up, you can cover the front surface with black roofing paper to simulate the rough texture. That worked for me when I redid the large firewall sound mat on my Ghia coupe. The advantage with the vertical side panels for DIY is that the shape is mostly flat. If you do find cardboard for the inner backers and it won't stay upright, maybe try to fit a support in the middle of the opening with something like an expandable channel brace such as on ceiling light fixture mounts. The bottom "foot" would need to be trimmed so that it fits over the body ledge. I don;t remember if the top ("ceiling" of the fenderwell) has any kind of retaining lip to anchor the brace's top "foot".

ConcreteAce · Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2015 9:04 pm Post subject:

Great information Rome. The link you posted it says waffle pattern, I am guessing they mean what is in this ghia from the gallery

They do recommend the German instead if you read the discription. Now I am wondering what the german one looks like. I'm not a fan of the one in the picture I posted from the gallery.
_________________
Ethan Dunlap
Spring, Texas

'51 Deluxe
'61 Build
'68 Turbo Diesel Baja
'64 Ghia Vert
'61 Baja Build


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