Herman's pressure lubricated Syncro transmission update

itzdshtz · Last edited by itzdshtz on Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:48 pm; edited 1 time in total

Hi all, it has been a while that I have posted but I thought that I'll let you know about changes that I have made to my transmission.
It has been about 9 years since I upgraded my Syncro transmission by adding a pressure lubrication system to it and I have been wondering how much wear there would be on the most critical parts, like ring and pinion and bearings.
The transmission went through some hard pulling when my clutch plate rusted to the flywheel from sitting inside the barn all winter, I had to drive it around the block with the clutch pedal pushed to the floor while in low gear and getting on and off the throttle till it finally broke free, it was like pulling several vehicles out of the mud.
I have about 30.000 on it now and I would like to upgrade to a S/A main bearing housing that wasn't available at the time and that I still feel is a weak spot, at the same time I thought I could upgrade my engine from a 2.0 TD 5 cylinder to a 2.5 M-TDI 5 cylinder to improve torque and mileage.

After disassembling the transmission I found that there was no wear at all on the bearings and ring and pinion (4.86 ratio) but there was some wear inside the main bearing housing, you could see that the bearing had been moving a bit and left some shiny spots inside the housing, the pinion bearing bore was still perfectly round.

The synthetic oil looked like new and there was only minor fuzz on the magnet of the drain plug.

I had ordered a main bearing housing from GoWesty and made a retaining plate for the bearing and added a spray tube to the fourth gear set.

Another improvement was a "spine" that I made to support the housing, I ended up lowering the engine and transmission about one inch to give it enough clearance between the tank.

Also I installed a high performance clutch because the new engine will put out about 120 HP.

Here are some pictures:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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No wear at all on the bearing.

You can see some wear in the bore.(top left)

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The bearing mounting plate, the spray nozzle and SS splash plate.

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The "spine" that I have made.

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This is the reverse gear that I narrowed down a bit so that I could fit a slightly thicker bearing mounting plate

This is the 2.5 M-TDI engine.

I'll will update this post when the van runs again.

Cheers Herman

Edit: put text under pictures
_________________
1989 Westy
1987 Westy Syncro 2.5 M- TDI
1991 Syncro, future 1.9 M- TDI
2005 Audi allroad 4.2
2005 S4
http://vanagonsyncroproject-herman.blogspot.com/
http://picasaweb.google.com/itzdshtz/VanagonSyncroProject02

Zeitgeist 13 · Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:03 pm Post subject:

Welcome back! Your ground-breaking mods are frequently referenced here and elsewhere. Can't wait to see more about your engine upgrade
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

svenakela · Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 6:13 pm Post subject:

Oh yes, your Vanagon and your mods are inspirational!

What pump did you use for the lubrication?
_________________
Vanagon mirror end caps

itzdshtz · Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:18 pm Post subject:

Thanks guys, Paul and others have some great ideas as well, if we keep trying to improve it bit by bit, we may end up with a transmission that will last.

Svenakela: I have used a power steering pump from an Audi 5 cylinder on this engine, the 1.9 TDI that is ready to go into the blue Syncro uses a P/S pump from the Golf, it is hiding below the Vanagon pump and has the double pulley on it. I had to make a simple bracket to mount the original Vanagon P/S pump a little higher up.

Double pulley on Golf pump

Pump in and outlet

Edit: added more pictures
_________________
1989 Westy
1987 Westy Syncro 2.5 M- TDI
1991 Syncro, future 1.9 M- TDI
2005 Audi allroad 4.2
2005 S4
http://vanagonsyncroproject-herman.blogspot.com/
http://picasaweb.google.com/itzdshtz/VanagonSyncroProject02

svenakela · Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2015 10:47 pm Post subject:

Plain simple and ingenious.
_________________
Vanagon mirror end caps

SyncroGhia · Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:55 am Post subject:

Good to see updates and nice to see you posting again Smile

MG
_________________
T3 Syncro 16 S6 Westfalia Limey SOLD
T3 Syncro 6x6 SOLD
T3 RS6 Bluestar
T3 Tristar Syncro 16 SOLD
T3 Tristar Syncro RHD SOLD

nmerrill · Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 7:46 am Post subject:

Thanks for the update! Great to hear that the effort seems to have paid off.
I've completed a cheap facsimile of your original oiling ideas on my own trans.

I like the look of your trans brace /spine - I'm surprised that you needed to lower everything to get that in there - it seems pretty low slung!
That is a project on my short list.

So, you used a power steering pump to circulate your trans oil. That means that you've had continuous circulation, hot oil, or morning cold? If I'm not mistaken, those pumps can pump a large volume too, no?
I had considered that route, but wasn't sure that I wanted to try to circulate oil all the time, particularly under cold starts.

Perhaps that is unfounded concern.

All very interesting.
Thanks for posting!

gears · Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:23 am Post subject:

Thank you for leading the way, Herman. I hope you don't mind us referring to our mods as "The Full Herman". I hope you continue to keep us updated.

I believe any concerns with thick oil on cold mornings could be addressed by using JayCee's oil filter mount with pressure relief. Filter type would be 60-100 micron System 1 or similar with stainless Betamesh screen .. NOT a standard pleated paper filter.

_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com

nmerrill · Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:43 am Post subject:

Hopefully not thread drift...
But, I don't know specifically about the Zf pumps like Herman's, but I've *read* that PS pumps can require several horse power to pump the volumes they pump, particularly at high RPM, not to mention 2 of them...

Not sayin' I'm against the idea! It has lots of things to like over an electric pump.

svenakela · Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:53 am Post subject:

itzdshtz · Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:54 am Post subject:

Thanks Paul, it's funny to see that.

The bypass looks like a real nice unit and should work well I think. How much do they cost?

I just drive the grey Syncro in summer time only so it has not been a issue for me, but in the blue one with the 1.9 TDI I was thinking of putting in a 12 volt solenoid valve with an adjustable Hayden thermostat so that when the engine is cold, the oil just bypasses back to the pump. When it warms up, the thermostat closes the bypass valve and the oil gets pumped through the tranny.

_________________
1989 Westy
1987 Westy Syncro 2.5 M- TDI
1991 Syncro, future 1.9 M- TDI
2005 Audi allroad 4.2
2005 S4
http://vanagonsyncroproject-herman.blogspot.com/
http://picasaweb.google.com/itzdshtz/VanagonSyncroProject02

Zeitgeist 13 · Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:56 am Post subject:

It would be interesting to combine a mechanical pump with a temperature triggered pulley clutch like on an AC compressor.
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

pedrokrusher

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Herman, you do beautiful work! That spine is so nice!

I was wondering if you noticed anything inside the tranny that the brace was needed? I am just very curious to hear about that... I added a brace to my 5 speed AAP tranny just as extra insurance to keep all that tranny as stiff as possible.

Thanks!
_________________
Pedro
1989 vanagon Karmann Gipsy #652, TDI AFN
1991 vanagon westfalia conversion TDI ALH Silverfox
ex-1989 vanagon syncro passenger Syncrofox (Sold)
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=598791&highlight=
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=493964&highlight=speed+aap+trans
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=496589&highlight=carrier+bars
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=506025

itzdshtz · Posted: Tue Mar 10, 2015 11:01 pm Post subject:

Zeitgeist 13: Yes that would be the best way, I looked at that but the A/C clutch assembly is just too big for an easy conversion. You could probably do it if you didn't have A/C.

Thanks Pedro, I didn't notice anything inside but it was what happened to Mike Ghia who found transmission fluid dripping from the fuel tank above it, that made me realize that there is a lot of stress on the housing during a heavy haul, and then there is also the 5 cylinder vibration issue of the S/A Vanagons.

I have a band saw so it was easy to make out of 1/2" steel plate, I think that it all helps a bit to make it last longer.
_________________
1989 Westy
1987 Westy Syncro 2.5 M- TDI
1991 Syncro, future 1.9 M- TDI
2005 Audi allroad 4.2
2005 S4
http://vanagonsyncroproject-herman.blogspot.com/
http://picasaweb.google.com/itzdshtz/VanagonSyncroProject02

SyncroGhia · Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 2:42 am Post subject:

svenakela · Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 12:23 pm Post subject:

itzdshtz · Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:08 pm Post subject:

Thanks for the interesting link.

I looked into an electric pump also but I think they are ideal for racing, I wonder how long they will last running all the time. The P/S pump never gave me any problems at all and puts out around 30PSI. It is a bit more work but it bullet proof.
I wore out 2 electric pumps for my intercooler and decided to simplify things a bit and went to an air cooled I/C in the D pillar with a small fan under it and an air scoop on the intake.
_________________
1989 Westy
1987 Westy Syncro 2.5 M- TDI
1991 Syncro, future 1.9 M- TDI
2005 Audi allroad 4.2
2005 S4
http://vanagonsyncroproject-herman.blogspot.com/
http://picasaweb.google.com/itzdshtz/VanagonSyncroProject02

Howesight

With all the discussion these days about improving or replacing the Syncro transaxle, it is heartening to see how well Herman's transaxle fared with his various mods and pressure oiling system, especially with a 5-cylinder direct injection diesel powering the vehicle.

I am giving his last few posts a bump here as they are germane to this whole discussion and in a post I will put up soon, I am posting up a few of his amazingly well-rendered pics (from Photobucket) here on the Samba so that they are not lost in the internet ether/purgatory.

Again, many thanks to you, Herman.
_________________
'86 Syncro Westy SVX

gears

Herman's The Man, so I'm looking forward to seeing those reposted photos and any future updates.
_________________
aka Pablo, Geary
9.36 @ 146 in '86 Hot & Sticky
'90 Syncro Westy SVX
'87 Syncro GL 2.5
https://guardtransaxle.com

itzdshtz

Well thanks guys, if we keep at it, we can improve this thing and make it last.
I'll look through my pictures too because there are quite a few that I never put out there.

Cheers Herman
_________________
1989 Westy
1987 Westy Syncro 2.5 M- TDI
1991 Syncro, future 1.9 M- TDI
2005 Audi allroad 4.2
2005 S4
http://vanagonsyncroproject-herman.blogspot.com/
http://picasaweb.google.com/itzdshtz/VanagonSyncroProject02


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Herman's pressure lubricated Syncro transmission update
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