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1979 VW for a newbie!
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colbythompson
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:21 pm    Post subject: 1979 VW for a newbie! Reply with quote

Hello everyone!

I just checked out a 79 westfalia for sale today, the owner gave me a little bit of wiggle room, like $200-300, but he seems pretty firm on that price. Here's the deal, although I've been looking around on here for the last 6 months or so, I'm still a bit confused on a few things.

He said the engine was a Porsche fuel injected engine. What does that mean and why should I care? I was planning on doing an engine rebuild anyway so I know the ins and outs of the bus.

He is reluctant to start the bus up for me before I purchase it. He said he had the fuel pump changed last summer and after the change it "pissed fuel and oil" when he drove it, so he had it towed home and supposedly hasn't touched it since. Also the heater exchange is detached from it and sitting in the cab. Are those expensive to replace? I plan on doing most of the work myself.

Despite these flaws the body is solid. Rust is minimal.

Am I being a dumb to consider paying his asking price? I'm under the impression that dishing out any amount of cash for a vehicle I can't test drive is pretty stupid haha, I certainly wouldn't do that with any other car, but hey, it's a hippy van, what else needs to be said!


Last edited by colbythompson on Sat Mar 14, 2015 8:12 pm; edited 2 times in total
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aeromech
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd say if it is complete and looks pretty good then $3800 would be a deal if you have several thousand more to pump into it if needed.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 14, 2015 10:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just plan on a rebuild if the owner will not get it running for you. Remember there are not a lot of buyers out there who are interested in a non running 35 year old car so bid appropriately.
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you do buy it, change out all of the fuel lines after you tow it home.
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aerosurfer
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:29 am    Post subject: Re: 1979 VW for a newbie! Reply with quote

colbythompson wrote:
Hello everyone!

I just checked out a 79 westfalia for sale today, the owner gave me a little bit of wiggle room, like $200-300, but he seems pretty firm on that price. Here's the deal, although I've been looking around on here for the last 6 months or so, I'm still a bit confused on a few things.

He said the engine was a Porsche fuel injected engine. What does that mean and why should I care? I was planning on doing an engine rebuild anyway so I know the ins and outs of the bus.


This is bullshit to the uninformed... You and him. The Type 4 motor was used in Buses, 411/412 cars, and Porsche 912 and 914 in various configurations. To say it has a porsche engine is advertising. Its essentially the Porsche that has a VW engine. The block was the same, heads, cam and exhaust were specific to the vehicle. Find out what engine code the block is.

Its a 79, so Depending on how original it is, there are some very specific 79 only parts to the exhaust and heads. More so if its gotta be Cali compliant to make smog.

colbythompson wrote:
He is reluctant to start the bus up for me before I purchase it. He said he had the fuel pump changed last summer and after the change it "pissed fuel and oil" when he drove it, so he had it towed home and supposedly hasn't touched it since. Also the heater exchange is detached from it and sitting in the cab. Are those expensive to replace? I plan on doing most of the work myself.


They can be tough to find the proper ones. Pics would help, also ask him what all is sitting in the van. If its the heater boxes, they are integral to the exhaust system and you can't start the bus with them off

colbythompson wrote:

Despite these flaws the body is solid. Rust is minimal.
Am I being a dumb to consider paying his asking price? I'm under the impression that dishing out any amount of cash for a vehicle I can't test drive is pretty stupid haha, I certainly wouldn't do that with any other car, but hey, it's a hippy van, what else needs to be said


The price needs to be pretty good indeed, however rust free, non running is the best of the rest you could find. In the end its really Emissions that are going to kick your ass on parts if you are missing any or have to hunt down and replace things. I'm a fan of the Fuel injection system. It has lots of 'dumb' component, meaning they are programmed to do one specific job. when they are all working properly its fantastic, and pretty reliable and consistent. It can be frustrating tracking down problems with them though. Parts are fairly easy to find (but you may have to locate the Cali bus specific ones) and there are some really good troubleshooting manuals online that are very straightforward.

I dove into a type 4 motor for my first rebuild with more luck and ignorance than actual experience . It went well, and some of the other people on here will quote you 4k+ for a rebuild, I did mine for under $2500. Not small change, but its very doable
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morymob
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Trans?? Cant be checked out until a running eng is in, if bad another big chunk/$ to address, brakes.will ALL parts need inspected & repaired as need, most of these & many others r typical of a new purchase, how is your bankroll, your mech ability? ? Things to think about before u jump into what usually an almost bottomless pit, my 2cts.
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PITApan
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 6:00 am    Post subject: Re: 1979 VW for a newbie! Reply with quote

colbythompson wrote:

Am I being a dumb to consider paying his asking price?


depends on what the asking price is. You don't exactly say.
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The transmissions are pretty robust on these buses and will go a very long while unless they are really abused.

Find out if it is a 79CA set up. The easy way is to see if the number on the distributor is VW# 039-905-205C or the Bosch #0237 022 009. A better way it to copy the M-code above the drivers left knee and write down all of the numbers in order.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=138499

This should have a "GE" number on the engine is it is origianl. 2.0L with hydraulic lifters when it came out of the factory.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 8:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A heat exchanger being removed would indicate that the owner or his mechanic thought there were head problems. Not likely it would be removed for gas having gotten into the oil.

I bought a California spec Riviera pop top a few years back that wouldn't run for only $1500. It had been for sale at that price for quite a while with no one giving it more than a cursory look until I came along.
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colbythompson
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you all for your responses. I'm going to go ahead and put an offer down on the bus later today or tomorrow, i was afraid to put up the asking price in case someone might swipe it, I'm not sure how prevalent that is but it'd be a bummer if that happened. I want to make sure the transmission is all set before makin the purchase, but my overall budget is between 6 and 8 grand for getting it up and running/ redoing the interior, he wants around 3500 to 4000 for it.

Do you think my budget is reasonable if I did an engine rebuild or replaced the engine completely? All work to be done by myself and friends (they are mechanics by trade, I'm learning now for this)

And to everyone who offered advice, thank you as well, I read everything posted and have taken note, I'll be sure to address those points you made when seeing it today.
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 10:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let us know what happens either way.
Good Luck
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secretsubmariner
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

depending on what shape the body is in, I wouldn't pay 3.5K to 4K for a bus that A) the seller won't start for you, and B) you are planning to rebuild anyway. And yeah, the Porsche non-sense is straight up hong kong phooey.

Decent shape, non running, needs a rebuild, 79, Westy - probably gonna need everything else in the brake, fuel and suspension systems, I wouldn't pay more than 2k. There are better deals to be had.

Although Pics would be nice Razz
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LouFilia
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:43 pm    Post subject: Hope I catch you before you go buy Reply with quote

colbythompson wrote:
Thank you all for your responses. I'm going to go ahead and put an offer down on the bus later today or tomorrow, i was afraid to put up the asking price in case someone might swipe it, I'm not sure how prevalent that is but it'd be a bummer if that happened. I want to make sure the transmission is all set before makin the purchase, but my overall budget is between 6 and 8 grand for getting it up and running/ redoing the interior, he wants around 3500 to 4000 for it.

Do you think my budget is reasonable if I did an engine rebuild or replaced the engine completely? All work to be done by myself and friends (they are mechanics by trade, I'm learning now for this)

And to everyone who offered advice, thank you as well, I read everything posted and have taken note, I'll be sure to address those points you made when seeing it today.


I just bought a '78 Westy in SLO, CA (I see your from LA), so I have an idea what you are facing.

Short answer, try to bring one of your mechanic friends to look over the bus and do a compression check, $3800 seems like high market if the guys giving you the true story (thats a big if), and your budget is reasonable for getting it running.

What happened to the picture?

Longer answer, please try to bring someone familiar with busses or at least super familiar with mechanics. The bus is nearly 40 years old. You can atleast verify the engine is in something like operating condition with a compression test. I am assuming you read the info about buying a bus here and on Ratwell.com. Be sure to look for rust in all the iffy spots (battery boxes, bottom of all doors and hatches, etc).

Since you can't drive the bus, every system needs to be looked at. Steering, brakes, suspension, electronics, and transmission/clutch can only be partially verified on a non running car and many systems, (like the FI system) can't be tested at all until you get the bus running. Make sure every part is there. This is really hard on a non-running car (esp the FI parts). That heat exchanger isn't cheap either, fixing it may be better. (reread and thought, technically, if you know the FI system well enough, you could check it in the field with one of the manuals here)


What do you pay? That's a tough one, people are starting to value/think of these busses like they are class A collectable (despite the thousands made). Like I have pointed out, there are a million unknowns with this bus. My instinct (based on value finished and demand) says it's really a 2500 bus in todays market (some of that is based on the picture that's now gone), but what is it worth to you since it's right here, now. Patience and dedication will always find a better deal. The choice is yours, if it's the ride you want it might be worth the premium. I paid 6500 bucks on a 5500 dollar bus because I could stop looking and start wrenching, camping, and bussing. I knew my ride was solid because I have lots of previous experience and just bit the bullet.

Your budget is okay, of course it could be 1500 to 10,000 get the bus running since it's hard to know anything.

Now that I know your budget, I might reccommend you look closer to the 6000-8000 dollar range. You get a nicer running bus in that range. I wanted to start out under five-grand too, but it just isn't easy (or financially responsible at this point in time).

Have fun and let us know what happens and please get a few more eyes on the bus.
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colbythompson
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LouFilia, thanks for putting in your 2cents. I had to reschedule with him so I'm going up again monday for a final, hawkeye look over of the bus. The more I talk to him the more it seems like negotiating will be tough, I haven't been firm with my stance yet... but I asked over the phone how he'd feel about us trying to turn the bus on, he said he was on rough terms with his landlord and didn't want to get oil all over the driveway and piss him off, but he said he'd charge the battery so I could turn it over. Should my BS meter be going off the charts here, because it is! And would hearing the engine turn over with a charged battery do anything for me in helping to get a better idea of the buses condition?

There's a 75 bus for sale in the area for a similar price (4500), it's got a pop top, but the inside is more of a weekender, but without the table. How feasible is it to get a weekender and turn it into a camper? I want the cabinets, bed, stove/kitchen, all of which it currently does not have. This bus needs a new transmission, a new front windshield and a new battery. The bus won't go in reverse (trans issue I think) but the mechanic who's going to be working on this with me thinks it's a better buy.
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aerosurfer
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like you are trying to pick the shinier turd...

Bringing a mechanic is a great idea, but be ready to walk away. Show up with cash, offer $2500ish for the first bus and go from there.

Lots of people, myself included, have bought and overpaid on bus fever. I love my bus and certainly value the what I've learned and the tools I have acquired, but if I could do it all over again, I would have passed on my particular chassis.

For the money you are willing to spend and the budget you say you have, I would keep looking, unless you can get either on a song.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you in Louisiana or Los Angeles (or Los Alamos?) If in California, keep in mind what it takes to pass smog inspection.

"Porsche engine" is a sure sign that the owner is bullshitting you.

That the owner won't start it is another bad sign. Count on a complete engine rebuild, and use that to argue the seller down.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How much are you looking to spend total? What is your budget? Either bus may need an easy 2k after you tow it home to make it drivable. You just don't know if a mechanic does not look at them. I would go over what you want to spend and then narrow down which bus you actually want. If you want the full on camper, maybe you should wait until one comes up for sale.

I went through a few vws, before I got the one that I actually wanted to deal with. You'll save yourself time and money by getting the one you really want instead of dropping cash into another bus while still looking for the camper to show up.
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colbythompson
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not going to lie, but the bus fever is definitely gotten it's hold of me. I actually just moved back to New England, gotta update my profile, but the buses up here are really limited, so while they may be overpriced and require work, it just seems like the sacrifice I'll have to make unless I want to take a road trip to North Carolina to check out a bus and then come back up Shocked

My overall budget is 6-8 thousand. My thought was rather than spending 5-8 grand on a bus and using up my budget on a bus I hope won't continue to need work, I should by one for half my budget or less and then do some fixing up myself so I know the condition of the trans/engine and other components. If it's looking like a 2K fix to get it running, that's a price I'd consider reasonable for my budget.

And so I'm ditching the "won't start just trust me it's fine bus." I'm a little proud I was able to overcome my excitement and bus-lust and say no to it. Now it seems like a no brainer, but man it sure is tempting when you're right there IN one and it's just a quick tow home!
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Let the seller sit on it for a few more weeks and then try him again. If the body and other stuff seems good enough maybe make him an offer but have the money held in escrow at your bank on the condition there are no major problems with the bus mechanically. Be specific on what you expect to work and how much you will pay for repairs before he gets your money.
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Gib_Gas
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

To put it in perspective, I bought my 79 westy 1.5 years ago out of state for $4500. I handed over the cash, threw my back pack in and drove 700 miles in it. It needs paint but it is very original and fairly straight and dry.

Yes I have done a lot of work to it and yes the market has changed even since then but i believe 4K should get you a runner.
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