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My new upholstery 412 front seats, need help with a part
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Tram
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damn! Are you an upholsterer by trade? Shocked
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pbnjimages
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 30, 2015 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only upholstery I've ever done was put a pair of store bought seat covers on my first VW 35 years ago. My wife talked me into trying this.

I would recommend trying it to anyone who is even a little bit creative. Just take the old upholstery apart carefully and mindfully, watch for alignment marks. ( The little V cuts). Start sewing from the alignments to the end, turn it around, and sew the other way.

I'll try to take more pics of the carpet project. which is starting now.

If anyone has specific questions or concerns about doing the upholstery on their seats, feel free to drop them here, or PM me and I will happily do my best to help
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a.wilson
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beautiful job!
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 8:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I disassembled one of my seat covers about 15 years ago (still have all the parts in a flat file)....and was going to embark on the same path.

I also think its very doable....especially considering all of the from the ground up 411/412 fabrication parts I have taken on in the time between then and now.

The items that slowed me down were these thoughts:

1. What to do to make the foam product I would choose (and what might that product be)...work and last more like modern seats....specifically being a bit more spill and waterproof and not having the springs wear through so fast.
I thought about plastic covers, cloth wrapped springs and underneath board layers......but never knew if they were workable ideas.....I think you put that together here and proved it pretty well.

2. What to sew with. 15 years ago I really couldn't afford a basic industrial sewing machine. I think there are probably enough floating around for cheap that I could do this in an aftordable way.

3. I was also balking at the rear center armrest. Alot of work.

At one point in time I did some measurements on the late model rear type 3 seats that also have the armrest. They are so close that at that point in time I was looking to have Sewfine simply make me a type 3 version rear seat cover in my colors and materials.....and then buy materials and do the front myself.

Sewfine noted about 10 years ago that if I had a complete seat and shipped it to them, they would pull the cover off, make a pattern for about $285. The actual cost to make the kit would have been about $450-500 for the pair.

I also about that time started looking at Procar seats. Procar will put whatever fabric insert comho you want to send them into the seat. The Procar base is very close to 411/412 and can be bolted into the lower seal chassis rack and use the plastic skirt. From my measurements.....it should look nearly factory. Adding the 412 headrests to the Procar seat would be a project though. Ray
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pbnjimages
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My rear seat didn't have the armrest, was that an option? I'm certain the upholstery on the armrest couldn't be any more bothersome than the fiddly bits on the seats, kind of like eating an elephant, just one bite at a time.

As for the head rests on the procar seats, I almost did away with my headrests when I realized cleaning up the old wouldn't look very good with the new upholstery, and the thought of sewing something that tight and form fitting was intimidating. Turns out it was one of the easiest tasks. The armrest could turn out to be something like that.

Food for thought: Used portable industrial machines, like the Consew should be around $300. New portable industrial machines go for $450 for the Consew, $600 for the Sailrite. Renting a full size industrial machine with long arm goes for about $60 a month. Just make sure whatever you get has an active walking foot, and a piping foot attachment.

My machine paid for itself with the front seats alone. The back bench was gravy. Using the machine now to bind the edges of the carpet that we are doing. (salt and pepper loop). Adding to that my wife wants us to recover the couch, and that machine turns out to be the best decision I've made since marrying my wife.

Ray, is your suspension tutorial almost ready? I'd kind of like to take a break on the interior and get to work on the ride height.
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pbnjimages wrote:
My rear seat didn't have the armrest, was that an option? I'm certain the upholstery on the armrest couldn't be any more bothersome than the fiddly bits on the seats, kind of like eating an elephant, just one bite at a time.

As for the head rests on the procar seats, I almost did away with my headrests when I realized cleaning up the old wouldn't look very good with the new upholstery, and the thought of sewing something that tight and form fitting was intimidating. Turns out it was one of the easiest tasks. The armrest could turn out to be something like that.

Food for thought: Used portable industrial machines, like the Consew should be around $300. New portable industrial machines go for $450 for the Consew, $600 for the Sailrite. Renting a full size industrial machine with long arm goes for about $60 a month. Just make sure whatever you get has an active walking foot, and a piping foot attachment.

My machine paid for itself with the front seats alone. The back bench was gravy. Using the machine now to bind the edges of the carpet that we are doing. (salt and pepper loop). Adding to that my wife wants us to recover the couch, and that machine turns out to be the best decision I've made since marrying my wife.

Ray, is your suspension tutorial almost ready? I'd kind of like to take a break on the interior and get to work on the ride height.



The suspension tutorial is VERY close. After going through 2 decades of notes on what all I have done and what worked...somewhere in the first 30 pages pf parts ID and history and photos, I realized that there were at least three good ways to do each main part of the mod (Strut bearing/bushing,ride height spacing, bump stop and boot).

I am pending final assembly of my two struts probably tonight or tomorrow night. The last two items were done this past weekend and this morning.

The complication at the final assembly photo stage was that just showing a progression of my assembly....would show you some spacing features and parts that might confuse someone of they did not know why I used what I used and what my final ride height was designed to be.......so I decided that it would be best to illustrate all three methods of top plate spacer assembly including the Mazda 626 strut bearing mod, a thinner version of it for the ride height conscious (the first one I used) and the latest ultra thin thrust washer method that I am currently using.

Also...I show pictorial assembly of two of the three strut bushing assemblies (1970-1973, late 73 through early 1975)...and only factory diagrams of the 1968 to July 70 but enough historical and parts background to make that one easy.

The last part done last weekend was the modification (one of the best of the bunch)....to use late 1973/74 strut bearings/bushings....with asymmetrical bolt pattern....in a August 1970 to 1973 car with symmetrical bolt pattern...without drilling asymmetrical holes in the body.

The answer was to gut the early bushing/bearing plate of the 1970-73 car and slice up a 1974 and later bearing assembly and weld it into the plate. I did that back in 1998/99....and it worked very well.....but was such crappy and ugly welding I could not bear to put iit back on the car.....so.....I cut 1/4" plate, welded the domes into the center, ground them down and epoxy coated them.

I am down to the assembly above the springs only. About 30 minutes work....about 2 hours for photos, about 3 hours writing/photo placement.....then I have to go back through the document...make spell checks and corrections, update the table of contents....maybe 7-8 hours total.

Hopefully by the weekend. Ray
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pbnjimages
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm really looking forward to it Ray.

Here's a teaser on the carpet job. I started with the easiest piece, the back of the rear seat. Shot the exposed metal with satin rustoleum, the plastic bits with Fusion paint, and my very patient wife took the time to hand polish the screws, washers, and metal doodads.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice!

Yes...the carpet should be interesting and I will be there sooner or later. The openings around the front footwell heater outlets that had kind of cast on factory vinyl binding would probably be best with sewn binding.

Also here an there I have located suitable "windlace" for the edges of the carpet where it tucks under at the door openings. I may reuse the ones I have.

I saved a vinyl heel pad from my original carpet. I explored about 10 years ago making a quicky silicone mold of that pad, shaving the new carpet in the shape of the pad to give it a recessed level spot and then casting either urethane or a high durometer silicone heel pad onto the carpet. The original was heat fused into the original carpet. Ray
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pbnjimages
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Heel pads are readily available at upholstery shops or online, although the majority of them are rectangular. The heel pad in my carpet has a bit of a notch closest to the peddle. In my application, I will cut a notch in the store bought pad, sew the pad to the carpet, bind the edge all the way around, and the cut out notch will look factory to anyone not down on their hands and knees. You can give me your opinion on the results in about a week or two. I've only got about an hour a day to fiddle with it. That's why it took us 2 months to complete the seats.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pbnjimages wrote:
Heel pads are readily available at upholstery shops or online, although the majority of them are rectangular. The heel pad in my carpet has a bit of a notch closest to the peddle. In my application, I will cut a notch in the store bought pad, sew the pad to the carpet, bind the edge all the way around, and the cut out notch will look factory to anyone not down on their hands and knees. You can give me your opinion on the results in about a week or two. I've only got about an hour a day to fiddle with it. That's why it took us 2 months to complete the seats.


I know the feeling on time. In the functional respect...a heel pad is a heel pad. I have seen tbem at some of the better upholstery supply houses. I was working to make one that had the basket weave pattern of stock that wont easily come loose. I thought about stitching one on too....but you have to be sure the thread can handle grit and water or they will start coming loose. I would also adhere it with weather strip adhesive.

The other problem I saw with sewing one kn is that you have the carpet underneath. Most of the factory ones were heat molded on and were down into the pile or no pile underneath. I can hardly we to see what you come up with. Ray
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pbnjimages
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polyester carpet does not like dry heat. You can use steam to help shape some light curves, but heat will melt the fibers down rather quickly. I plan on knocking the loop pile down where the heel pad goes with some judicious application of heat from a heat gun, and with something protecting the periphery from spill over. I wet towel should do fine. Once the fibers in a spot are heated, crush them flat. I should be left with a perfect indent for the heel pad to be sewn in, with the added benefit of being reinforced by the semi melted loop underneath. Pretty sure many manufacturers of carpets and floor mats heat bond the heel pads in a single step. Could be mistaken, but that is the method I intend to do first.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 31, 2015 9:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pbnjimages wrote:
Polyester carpet does not like dry heat. You can use steam to help shape some light curves, but heat will melt the fibers down rather quickly. I plan on knocking the loop pile down where the heel pad goes with some judicious application of heat from a heat gun, and with something protecting the periphery from spill over. I wet towel should do fine. Once the fibers in a spot are heated, crush them flat. I should be left with a perfect indent for the heel pad to be sewn in, with the added benefit of being reinforced by the semi melted loop underneath. Pretty sure many manufacturers of carpets and floor mats heat bond the heel pads in a single step. Could be mistaken, but that is the method I intend to do first.


Thats how the factory was done. The area under the heat sealed heel pad was either hot stamped to mat it down flat....pretty easy to do...outline the area with a soldering iron and light flame treatment with a propane torch and diffuser.....or it was simply shaved. I dont know which....but it was lower than the surroundkng pile. Ray
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 7:26 pm    Post subject: Re: My new upholstery 412 front seats, need help with a part Reply with quote

I know it's a long shot but here goes...

Would you happen to have a pattern toy could share with or sell to. me?

Thanks in advance!

Deacon
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pbnjimages
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 9:57 pm    Post subject: Re: My new upholstery 412 front seats, need help with a part Reply with quote

Are you asking for upholstery patterns or carpet patterns? I could supply either, , but you'll have to give me some time, my wife and I are in the middle of buying a new place
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 7:07 am    Post subject: Re: My new upholstery 412 front seats, need help with a part Reply with quote

I'm a little confused on the back side of the rear seat shown with a resest handle at the top. My car is a 71 411, and it doesn't have that, and it is permanently fastened down with a couple of screws and slip slots. What's the purpose of the handle? Bob
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 7:33 am    Post subject: Re: My new upholstery 412 front seats, need help with a part Reply with quote

titan3c wrote:
I'm a little confused on the back side of the rear seat shown with a resest handle at the top. My car is a 71 411, and it doesn't have that, and it is permanently fastened down with a couple of screws and slip slots. What's the purpose of the handle? Bob


That handle is on the wagon/variant used to fold the seat back down flat if memory serves....or it may be the latch that allows the seat bottom to tip forward so you can access the heater and sytem power relays that are under there instead of on the firewall in the engine compartment.

I can't remember titan3c.....do you have a wagon? If so.....and if yours does not have the latch.....is your backseat back at least hinged at the bottom?

Ray
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 12:03 pm    Post subject: Re: My new upholstery 412 front seats, need help with a part Reply with quote

Yep it finally dawned on me that it was for a Variant. The Sedan rear seat back fastens down permanently, and doesn't fold down It fits firmly against the firewall to the engine compartment by a couple of tongues that slip into slots, and the bottom is bolted down. And it does sort of get in the way when installing shocks. I managed by not removing it, but if I do it again I will remove the back seats. Not difficult, just a nuisance . Bob
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raygreenwood
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 12:22 pm    Post subject: Re: My new upholstery 412 front seats, need help with a part Reply with quote

Oh yeah....replacing shocks on a sedan is best done with a collection of socket extensions and a rigged up method t hold the socket still while you work underneath. Laughing
Ray
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