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EverettB 
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 Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:13 am Post subject: How to get your FI Type 3 running after it's been sitting |
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We are starting this thread for tips, tricks, and general advice on getting a Fuel Injected (FI) Type 3 running if it has been sitting for a while.
Please anything you can think of in this thread by clicking "Post Reply".
I will update this first post as needed to consolidate all advice.
From BobNotch (to kick off this thread):
We could start with replacing ALL of the fuel hoses with new ones (including the short ones on the injectors too). You need 25 feet of 5/16ths hose, and 34 FI style hose clamps.
Possible replacements for the existing Bosch fuel pump include the Airtex E2000 (for an 85 to 89 ford ranger frame rail mounted pump), or it's equivalent.
Needing to match the ECU with the MPS (if having to replace 1 or the other).
Using the mechanical AAR to replace a faulty electric one.
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nogoodwithusernames
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Donnie strickland
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:38 am Post subject: |
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It's best to check the inside of the fuel tank for rust/trash first, and assume the tank vent hose system is bad and will need to be replaced. Jim Adney ([email protected]) sells an excellent vent hose kit to fix this, so you won't get dirt and water in your tank. And don't forget to change the fuel filter at the same time as the lines. If you use the Airtex E2000 pump, as I did, you don't have to stay with the Bosch factory filter. I use a generic steel bodied fuel filter with 5/16 inlet and outlet.
You'll need a fuel pressure gauge and a length of 5/16 hose to attach it to the car. Ray Greenwood recommends this one from McMaster-Carr, which is what I use -- it's accurate to 1.5 percent over the whole range:
http://www.mcmaster.com/#3548k11/=wofys1
Get the one which reads 0-2.5 bar (0-36 psi).
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KTPhil
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:41 am Post subject: |
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Are we looking for engine tips only, or general vehicle resurrection advice?
In addition to generic VW advice, there are a few Type 3 unique things not directly related to the engine:
1) Check the fuel overflow and tank vent hoses-- this is a common source of dirt and water entry. Jim Adney makes a kit for this.
2) Tighten relays under the dash and rear seat-- bad grounds can cause intermittent fuel system failures.
3) Check the endplay in the upper torsion arms-- often neglected.
Engine:
1) Check and probably replace the injector tip seals.
2) Vacuum is everything on this system, including the PCV system and valve cover hoses on late models.
3) Replace every hose (air and gas) in the engine bay; old hoses will look fine but leak, especially under vibration.
Fuel line:
1) FI hose is more expensive but will last longer with today's fuels. It is an all day job to replace all the hoses and you don't want to do this more than necessary!
2) Photo of FI style clamp at:
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/413845.gif
Last edited by KTPhil on Fri Apr 10, 2015 7:54 am; edited 2 times in total |
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Tram
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:21 am Post subject: |
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I have a whole guide I made up out in my shop lit for laying up and resurrecting a VW Type 3 from long term storage. I'll try to dig it out and post the whole procedure here.
There was an exact sequence for going through the whole car stem to stern to get it road ready so you're anticipating and heading off all common problems for trouble free motoring.
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Bobnotch
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| nogoodwithusernames wrote: |
I would also go through the vacuum lines since they are pretty easy.
I believe there are three different sizes: 1/4", 3/8" and 1/2"? I can double check tonight but I think that is what I bought when I did them all. |
Actually it's 1/8th inch (vac line to distributor), 5'16ths (IAD to MPS), 3/8ths (IAD to AAR), 1/2 inch (AAR to Air cleaner, and breather tower (71 and earlier) to air cleaner).
KTPhil brings up some good points. Brakes are often another item that's usually a problem with t-3s that have been left neglected. So keep that in mind IF you're bring one back to use. Just a thought. I'm sure we could add a bunch of things to this thread if we really tried.
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71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
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| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Donnie strickland
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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Certainly brakes, etc. should be checked out, but things like that apply to any car. Perhaps they might be better placed in the Type 3 Common Questions/FAQ thread?
Everett can answer this one best, but I was under the impression this was to be a thread for items specifically related to injected cars -- I think that would keep it manageable. I wouldn't want it to get so big and unwieldy that new folks find it overwhelming.
Tram, that list would be a great idea to post somewhere in the Type 3 forum!
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EverettB
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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People had specifically asked for a thread about resurrecting the FI system so that was the purpose of this thread but if we are just talking about a big list of stuff to check for any Type 3 that's been sitting, I can append that to the end of the first post in this thread.
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Bobnotch
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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Might want to add changing the oil (due to fuel getting dumped into the system from a hung injector). Well that an water condensation getting mixed with the oil from sitting.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Tram
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Donnie strickland wrote: |
Certainly brakes, etc. should be checked out, but things like that apply to any car. Perhaps they might be better placed in the Type 3 Common Questions/FAQ thread?
Everett can answer this one best, but I was under the impression this was to be a thread for items specifically related to injected cars -- I think that would keep it manageable. I wouldn't want it to get so big and unwieldy that new folks find it overwhelming.
Tram, that list would be a great idea to post somewhere in the Type 3 forum! |
And... this actually is "somewhere in the Type 3 forum", isn't it? 
(Pssst. Yo. Donnie! "Tram is an ass.")
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Tram
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| Posted: Thu Apr 09, 2015 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, since nobody asked, this is how I'd go about it:
1. Drain fuel tank
2. Remove tank sending unit and inspect inside of tank
3. Remove fuel pump
4. Replace all rubber fuel lines under tank and at engine and replace fuel filter
5. Soak pump in Diesel while sending tank out for cleaning. (NOTE: NEVER use "tank sealer" in a FI tank!!!)
6. Hook up battery to pump after a 24/48 hour soak. Leaving it submerged in diesel, apply power. If pump wont run, gently knock with a small hammer. If it runs, let it run for a minute, then reverse polarity at the battery. This will clean and lube the pump.
7. Install cleaned tank and cleaned pump. Repair vapor hoses at filler neck as necessary. Install fresh gasoline.
8. Remove spark plugs and put a tablespoon of Sili Kroil or ATF into each cylinder.
9. Mark distributor position and remove distributor
10. Remove vacuum hose from AAR inlet. Add some Sili Kroil or ATF to AAR.
11. Remove manifold pressure sensor for cleaning out with electronics cleaner. Test for vacuum. Reinstall.
12. Replace all vacuum lines
13. Replace engine oil and clean screen.
14. Clean out distributor with electronics cleaner. Remove trigger points and clean with same. Apply dielectric grease to trigger point eccentric on distributor shaft and reinstall trigger points. Adjust or replace ignition points. Test trigger point function with distributor in bench vise and a VOM. Test function of vacuum advance(s). Oil distributor shaft and test "snap back" function of advance weights. If all is in order, reinstall distributor.
15. Gently turn engine over by hand. if it seems stuck, gently rock until it moves freely through several revolutions.
16. Remove valve covers and adjust valves.
17. Replace all fuses with the new copper type. Clean fuse box with electronics cleaner and a small brass brush.
18. Clean battery cable clamps. Remove body end of battery ground, clean the cable and the body, and reinstall cable. Remove voltage regulator, clean all connections. and sand regulator and body where they meet. Clean all connections at starter motor.
19. Replace spark plugs with non- resistor copper core type.
20. Install fresh battery
21. Install fuel pressure gauge at test port. Energize ignition several times without turning engine. Adjust pressure if necessary to 28 PSI and check closely for fuel leaks or fuel smell. If leaks or fuel smell are detected, correct this.
22. Start the engine.
If the engine fails to start, proceed by first definitively eliminating the ignition system as the source of the fault, and proceed using the following charts:
Here's a dealer level FI training booklet, too:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/dlt_fuelinjection.php
Anything I've missed, feel free to add. I couldn't find my chart so I'm pretty much going from memory.
Here's a nice general maintenance primer, too:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/looklisten_18.php
I tend to want to go through the whole car before I'll even take a joyride.
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| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
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Donnie strickland
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 3:21 am Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
And... this actually is "somewhere in the Type 3 forum", isn't it?
(Pssst. Yo. Donnie! "Tram is an ass.") |
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sjbartnik
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 6:44 am Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
17. Replace all fuses with the new copper type. Clean fuse box with electronics cleaner and a small brass brush.
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Tell me more. Got a link? Last time I had an air-cooled VW the hot deal was to replace the OEM-type ceramic fuses with a glass enclosed type that Buss was making, the GBC I think it was. Seems like Buss still makes these but they're the same stock number as the ceramic type they make so it's a crapshoot as to which type you're gonna get at the store or when you order online. |
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Tram
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| sjbartnik wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
17. Replace all fuses with the new copper type. Clean fuse box with electronics cleaner and a small brass brush.
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Tell me more. Got a link? Last time I had an air-cooled VW the hot deal was to replace the OEM-type ceramic fuses with a glass enclosed type that Buss was making, the GBC I think it was. Seems like Buss still makes these but they're the same stock number as the ceramic type they make so it's a crapshoot as to which type you're gonna get at the store or when you order online. |
IMHO the Buss fuses suck because you can't tell at a glance which amperage they are and plus, they look stupid.
I use these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fiat-Ceramic-Fuse-Set-8-16...mp;vxp=mtr
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EverettB
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Tram wrote: |
| sjbartnik wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
17. Replace all fuses with the new copper type. Clean fuse box with electronics cleaner and a small brass brush.
|
Tell me more. Got a link? Last time I had an air-cooled VW the hot deal was to replace the OEM-type ceramic fuses with a glass enclosed type that Buss was making, the GBC I think it was. Seems like Buss still makes these but they're the same stock number as the ceramic type they make so it's a crapshoot as to which type you're gonna get at the store or when you order online. |
IMHO the Buss fuses suck because you can't tell at a glance which amperage they are and plus, they look stupid.
I use these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Fiat-Ceramic-Fuse-Set-8-16...mp;vxp=mtr |
I use that style too.
Side note:
I agree 100% with 17. above - I have done that a few times on cars I bought and like magic all of a sudden most or all of the electrical stuff works great again.
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gavs
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| Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
Actually it's 1/8th inch (vac line to distributor), 5'16ths (IAD to MPS), 3/8ths (IAD to AAR), 1/2 inch (AAR to Air cleaner, and breather tower (71 and earlier) to air cleaner). |
.
Not trying to sound like an ass, but being a German car, the hoses would actually be metric yes?
Something I learned which had me almost pulling my hair out is the wiring. It would be a good idea to check the wiring for the ECU because like in my case, after sitting for 5 years after being driven every other day of it's life, the insulation around the copper had gone brittle and being only 0.5mm sq wire, the wiring just snapped clean through. |
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Bobnotch
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| Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| gavs wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
Actually it's 1/8th inch (vac line to distributor), 5'16ths (IAD to MPS), 3/8ths (IAD to AAR), 1/2 inch (AAR to Air cleaner, and breather tower (71 and earlier) to air cleaner). |
.
Not trying to sound like an ass, but being a German car, the hoses would actually be metric yes? |
Yeah, you could use metric hoses in their place. Here in the states, most auto parts places carry inch spec hose in stock, and will order you up some metric hose.
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
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Tram
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Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Bobnotch wrote: |
| gavs wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
Actually it's 1/8th inch (vac line to distributor), 5'16ths (IAD to MPS), 3/8ths (IAD to AAR), 1/2 inch (AAR to Air cleaner, and breather tower (71 and earlier) to air cleaner). |
.
Not trying to sound like an ass, but being a German car, the hoses would actually be metric yes? |
Yeah, you could use metric hoses in their place. Here in the states, most auto parts places carry inch spec hose in stock, and will order you up some metric hose. |
Mercedes webbed 3mm diesel return line by the meter is your friend.
That said, gavs can try being an ass all he wants but we all know that there is only one true Ass, and thou shalt worship no other Ass before me...
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| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
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vwsplitvan
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Posts: 479
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| Posted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 5:27 am Post subject: FI guide |
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Some great links there too Tram. thanks.
| Tram wrote: |
Actually, since nobody asked, this is how I'd go about it:
1. Drain fuel tank
2. Remove tank sending unit and inspect inside of tank
3. Remove fuel pump
4. Replace all rubber fuel lines under tank and at engine and replace fuel filter
5. Soak pump in Diesel while sending tank out for cleaning. (NOTE: NEVER use "tank sealer" in a FI tank!!!)
6. Hook up battery to pump after a 24/48 hour soak. Leaving it submerged in diesel, apply power. If pump wont run, gently knock with a small hammer. If it runs, let it run for a minute, then reverse polarity at the battery. This will clean and lube the pump.
7. Install cleaned tank and cleaned pump. Repair vapor hoses at filler neck as necessary. Install fresh gasoline.
8. Remove spark plugs and put a tablespoon of Sili Kroil or ATF into each cylinder.
9. Mark distributor position and remove distributor
10. Remove vacuum hose from AAR inlet. Add some Sili Kroil or ATF to AAR.
11. Remove manifold pressure sensor for cleaning out with electronics cleaner. Test for vacuum. Reinstall.
12. Replace all vacuum lines
13. Replace engine oil and clean screen.
14. Clean out distributor with electronics cleaner. Remove trigger points and clean with same. Apply dielectric grease to trigger point eccentric on distributor shaft and reinstall trigger points. Adjust or replace ignition points. Test trigger point function with distributor in bench vise and a VOM. Test function of vacuum advance(s). Oil distributor shaft and test "snap back" function of advance weights. If all is in order, reinstall distributor.
15. Gently turn engine over by hand. if it seems stuck, gently rock until it moves freely through several revolutions.
16. Remove valve covers and adjust valves.
17. Replace all fuses with the new copper type. Clean fuse box with electronics cleaner and a small brass brush.
18. Clean battery cable clamps. Remove body end of battery ground, clean the cable and the body, and reinstall cable. Remove voltage regulator, clean all connections. and sand regulator and body where they meet. Clean all connections at starter motor.
19. Replace spark plugs with non- resistor copper core type.
20. Install fresh battery
21. Install fuel pressure gauge at test port. Energize ignition several times without turning engine. Adjust pressure if necessary to 28 PSI and check closely for fuel leaks or fuel smell. If leaks or fuel smell are detected, correct this.
22. Start the engine.
If the engine fails to start, proceed by first definitively eliminating the ignition system as the source of the fault, and proceed using the following charts:
Here's a dealer level FI training booklet, too:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/dlt_fuelinjection.php
Anything I've missed, feel free to add. I couldn't find my chart so I'm pretty much going from memory.
Here's a nice general maintenance primer, too:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/manuals/looklisten_18.php
I tend to want to go through the whole car before I'll even take a joyride. |
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