Another TDI Vanagon discussion...

[AndyBees]

[Zeitgeist 13]

Yep, I think this is a game changer, especially since you have 4.57 and 4.13 R&P options with that fifth gear now. Smooth ratios matched to engine torque, and a freeway flyer top gear
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Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[?Waldo?]

The 4.1 5-speed R+P has been readily available for many years. It's nice that the kit includes the other necessary parts, though, so you don't have to track down a 5-speed core.

[Zeitgeist 13]

The ability to convert any 091/1 to five speed is the game changer, as is Weddle's ongoing willingness to support these boxes with new innovations
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Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[?Waldo?]

I think it's cool. It's great to have options. I don't see how the end result is different from sourcing a 5-speed and swapping the R+P which has always been an available option for a similar (or often lower) parts cost.

[Zeitgeist 13]

I've never even seen a VAG 091 five speed in person. Not one. I've also only seen a few online that would serve my purposes in stock form. Now I can theoretically click a mouse and source a brand new kit to convert my poorly geared four speed to the exact gear interchange needed, without futzing around with oddball tire sizes or weird online used parts resellers I don't trust.
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Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[?Waldo?]

I feel a little confusion with you saying '091 5-speed'. If I am not mistaken Bentley calls the air-cooled/82 diesel 4-speed the 091. Bentley calls the WBX 4-speed the 091/1. Weddle has always called the WBX 4-speed the '094 4-speed' (which has caused me some confusion when dealing with them in the past). Bentley calls the 2WD 5-speed (originally imported to North America in the '83 diesel DX code 5-speed only) an 094.

As far as an 091 5-speed, I have never seen or heard of anyone making or converting one. Weddle's kit does not fit the 091 trans. I have seen quite a few 094 2wd 5-speed transaxles. Granted they are rare, but certainly not unobtainable. A few years back I bought a core DX for $850 with the rest of the camper vanagon attached for free. Granted those deals don't typically happen any more.

The 4.57 5-speed R+P has been available for $500ish delivered and the 4.1 for $900ish delivered. The rest of the gears have all been available from Weddle. This is the main reason I've always dissented when people have reiterated the myth that the 2WD 5-speeds were "just a 4-speed with an extra low 1st gear with no benefit at highway speeds."

It is my understanding that the weddle kit is exactly the parts to convert the WBX 4-speed (called 094 by Weddle and 091/1 by Bentley) to be mechanically indistinguishable from the 094 5-speed that was available in the '83 diesels and later years/engines in other markets. Am I mistaken?

I also very much appreciate the ease/availability from a trusted vendor. Options are great. I just felt a little confused at the comments that have promoted this as a previously unobtainable end result.

Anyone know how Weddle recommends dealing with the shift pattern/box?

[Zeitgeist 13]

I don't know why they refer to the 091 as an 094. I've never even seen an '83 diesel van in person, despite working on dozens of '82 models, and owning one myself. To my knowledge there has never been a readily available new kit to convert an 091/1 four speed over to a taller R&P five speed. I've seen a few used five speeds online, but they typically were geared too short, were of indeterminate mileage, or were offered by sketchy vendors. The game changing elements are "new", "readily available", and from a "trusted source". I've heard that some of the big name trans builders could occasionally source these parts, but the availability and opaque pricing always seemed murky at best.
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Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[MarkWard]

The 094 was throwing me as well. After running a 4.57 for a year with a stock 4th gear, for me it was just not tall enough. I opted for the 4.14 ring and pinion with a .77 4th.

This effectively made all 4 gears taller. The shift from the stock 3rd to the .77 4th seems normal enough to me. I shift at 3000 rpm and rpm drop between shifts is acceptable. Always in the good part of the torque curve. Max torque is 2200 rpm on the ALH TDI.


Top Speed in 1 gear = 15.401 MPH
And changes into 2 gear at 1635 RPM dropping 1365 RPM
Top Speed in 2 gear = 28.260 MPH
And changes into 3 gear at 1718 RPM dropping 1282 RPM
Top Speed in 3 gear = 49.334 MPH
And changes into 4 gear at 1958 RPM dropping 1042 RPM
Top Speed in 4 gear = 75.603 MPH
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☮️

[hans j]

Just called Weddle. This kit is very similar to the SA 5 speed. He said they have sold a couple kits, but didn't have any feed back yet.

Shifting pattern is exactly like a syncro low gear. So first gear is down and down, past the reverse lockout (reverse being down and up).

With the gearing options, you might be able to start off in 2nd gear, but would probably depend on your tire diameter. Especially with a TDI, you could start off in 2nd.

The first gear location is kind of a turn off for me though. I am familiar with it in my syncro, and while it's fairly easy to use, I don't want to use it everyday. Although I do like the 2-5 ratios and spacing.

I still have a lot of time to think about it though
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1986 Canadian Syncro Westy TDI - 1989 Syncro Single Cab - 2001 Audi S4 - 1981 VW Caddy ABA - 1980 VW Caddy EV - 1973 VW T-181

[?Waldo?]

My 5-speed is the same shift pattern. It is fairly easy to get used to the pattern, but I agree, it is a bit of a turn off. Although I've had a few people ask to test drive it, I don't let anyone else drive that van because the tendency on a rolling right turn is to aim for second (down left) which is really first and in some situations that can significantly over-rev the engine. I suppose keeping the lockout (mine does not have a lockout for first) might be beneficial to prevent that brain fart.

[Zeitgeist 13]

Bummer about the first gear. I was hoping for a true five speed. If using the 4.13 R&P, I wonder if it's possible to closely match the ratios found in say a Pumpe Duse Passat w/five speed. I suspect the first gear ratio would need to be taller than 4.00, and Weddle seems to only offer a 4.11
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Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[?Waldo?]

In a vanagon, due to the added weight and worse aerodynamics, I would want shorter gearing than any other VW/Audi model, especially in the top gear/highway speeds.

[tjet]

[Zeitgeist 13]

I've longed for a tall five gear since I bought my first T3 over two decades ago. I still sometimes reflexively reach for a phantom fifth when I'm on the freeway @ 70mph+...which is a lot

I would like to run with similar gear spacings as a TDI sedan, but with a shorter final drive better matched to the van. I think the other TDIs run a 3.39 R&P, so a 4.13 might fit the bill
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Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

[MarkWard]

[hans j]

[tjet]

[hans j]

Sorry, 4.86. I guess that was an important bit of info! I like it and I'm glad I chose it, but it might not work for everybody.

edit: I feel that Scirocco.org and Weddle have way better gear calculators and easier to read!
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1986 Canadian Syncro Westy TDI - 1989 Syncro Single Cab - 2001 Audi S4 - 1981 VW Caddy ABA - 1980 VW Caddy EV - 1973 VW T-181

[AndyBees]

Copy and paste from the Weddle web site:

Get optimal gearing. The standard 4-speed 2WD VW 094 gearbox comes with the following ratios (USA spec):

R&P: 4.86 1st: 3.78 2nd: 2.06 3rd: 1.23 4th: 0.85

The Weddle 5-speed Kit comes standard with the following ratios:

R&P: 4.57 1st: 4.11 2nd: 2.13 3rd: 1.48 4th:1.02 5th: (0.85)*
*This kit requires using the existing 4th (0.85) gear in the 5th gear position

Optional/additional ratios are also available (at additional cost):
• R&P Set: 4.13, 4.83, 4.86
• 2nd Gear: 2.33
• 5th Gear: 0.82, 0.77, 0.75, 0.73, 0.70
................................................................................

I don't see pulling out in 2nd gear being an option in the modified 5-speed. The ratios are almost the same in both the 4-speed and 5-speed. And, with their 4.57 standard option, the two 2nd gears will be even closer.

As I stated previously (above), the gap between 3rd and 4th is okay with my set-up (see below). But, with Weddle's standard option using the .75 would be an improvement and also drop the running RPM at 70 mph by about 150 RPMs.

Weddle standard option

R&P: 4.57, 1st: 4.11, 2nd: 2.13, 3rd: 1.48, 4th:1.02 5th: (0.85)*

My modified/upgraded DK from a 1980 Air-cool

R&P: 4.57, 1st: 3.78, 2nd: 2.06, 3rd: 1.14, 4th: 0.77

Stock DK tranny

R&P: 4.57, 1st: 3.78, 2nd: 2.06, 3rd: 1.23, 4th: 0.85


The gap from 4th to 5th among the available choices will be better than the gap from 3rd to 4th in my application. So, this will be an improvement.
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'84 Vanagon Tin-top, ALH TDI. 1989 Tin-top
1983 Air-cool, 225k miles, 180k miles mine. Seven trips to Alaska from 1986 thru 2003.