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First trip, and need some engine tips
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cwat1982
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:39 pm    Post subject: First trip, and need some engine tips Reply with quote

Hello all,

First off, love seeing all the other buggies, this is a great forum!!

The motorcycle didn't have enough seats for the kids, so it was time to sell and find something more family friendly. After about a year of searching I found my beast and am excited to join the VW community. Actually found the buggy through Samba's classifieds from talented member/builder "ronald sawyers".

It was a 1970 bug that has been totally reworked into the beauty it is today. I'm far from a gearhead and hope to learn as I play, from what I have been told the buggy has...

- New frame and roll cage.
- New aluminum floorpan.
- New (overhauled) engine 2100cc (160HP)
- Upgraded Rancho transmission.
- Sway-A-Way Race Runner rear suspension.
- New custom fuel tank and very cool level guage.
- Joe Poty Sand Rover T Bug Pickup body kit. "Truck box" has been modified to make a rear seat.
- 4 wheel disc brakes.
- Custom removable hardtop roof with rack.

I wanted some adventure when I bought it so I flew down to Coeur D'Alene, Idaho and picked it up with the plan of driving it 1650kms home to Fort McMurray, Alberta, Canada through the mountains. I was cautioned by the engine builder and the previous owner not to sustain a constant RPM for long periods as the engine was new and still being broke in and it wouldn't like this. I kept cycling my speed and RPM's throughout the drive. The trip started great and I had a blast driving all the way to Edmonton via Eastport, Cranbrook, Golden, and Calgary. I left it at our cousins farm outside of Edmonton for a few days for a family gathering where I could take all the kids around for a rip (and show off the new wheels to the family).

Crossing the border:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Through the mountains:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Now the hiccup... I had put fantastic 1350kms on the buggy and was about 50km south of Grasslands on my way to Fort McMurray when there was a sound change from the engine/exhaust, and a loss of power. Before I could easily power up to 110kmph with plenty of jam to push it further, now I could only sustain 100kmph on a straightaway. I looked it over not seeing any damage and talked to my mechanic brother in law, we decided it should be fine to drive to Plamondan where I could safely store it at the inlaws property. The next day I drove down and finished the trip north with the buggy on a uHaul trailer. The engine starts perfectly fine, and still pushes the buggy around. It has just lost some power, has a noisier exhaust, and backfires and little at lower RPM's. The brother in law said it could be something as simple as a blown baffle in the exhaust. I am going to pull the plugs and do a compression test, and planned on changing the exhaust anyway (Hooks recommended a Tri-Mil Bobcat 1 5/8").

Cheers,
Chad


Last edited by cwat1982 on Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:11 am; edited 2 times in total
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cwat1982
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:42 pm    Post subject: Engine findings Reply with quote

Did a compression test and had a big fat zero on cylinder #3. Soooo I pulled the valve cover and found this:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Looking at the rocker assembly cylinder #3 push rod had snapped.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Here's all the pieces I pulled out of the bottom of the head and head cover.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I think the higher RPM's resulted in a broken rocker shaft clip causing the rockers to shift, there is wear to two of the spring retainers, and eventually breaking another clip, shaft springs, and push rod.
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like it lost a cylinder. Probably won;t have any compression on it as it comes up for it's turn at TDC. Should be able to feel which one it is by turning the engine over by hand. Could be something wrong in the valve train. Could just be a loose spark-plug.
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok I just got your post! Time for solid Rocker shaft's etc...
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cwat1982
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:54 pm    Post subject: Mostly fixed now... Reply with quote

I picked up some solid rocker shafts (thanks to some tips I found on the forum) so hopefully I won't have a similar failure. As well changed all the valve adjusting studs, couple new pushrods.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Last thing I am planning on doing this weekend is changing the two chewed up spring retainers.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


While scoping this out I noticed the ends of the valves with the chewed up spring retainers are rounded. Closest in the picture is rounded off, 3rd one in is slightly rounded. I did pick up lash caps, but they won't seat on these two. Should I be looking at changing out the valves as well???

One more question is the valve adjustment. Haynes bug manual says a 0.04 gap, builder in Spokane says a 0.06 gap on all valves.

Thanks for any tips.

Cheers,
Chad


Last edited by cwat1982 on Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:32 am; edited 1 time in total
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cwat1982
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hahaha, thanks Dan. Looks like I went in the right direction. No more quick posts coming... all done for the night
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have had them come off the push rod and do that. Too high of an RPM can for sure do it on stock rockers shafts. No problems though since going to solid rocker shafts and swivel feet adjusters.
You will probably want to pull the heads and replace those valves and lashes etc too at some point. But you can get by just running the swivel feet or elephant feet adjusters with the new solid shaft bolt together rocker shafts. They take a bit of fitting to get the side play out.
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wythac
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check to make sure those rocker studs are bottomed out and use red locktite on them. I had a rocker failure once due to one of those backing out.

I'd feel a lot better about a long trip if I pulled the heads and had em inspected. It a PITA but not that bad on a buggy. Worth the piece if mind.

Love that car.
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manxdavid
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't trust any engine builder that built anything other than a bone-stock motor without bolt together rockers and cut-to-length chrome moly pushrods. You should really get it all checked out by someone who know what they're doing.

As for valve clearances 6 thou's fine for stock alloy pushrods but for chrome moly/steel ones set at a 'tight zero' (in reality around 1.5 thou).
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clonebug
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those two valves are beat to death.
You need to pull the head and replace them.
You'll never be able to maintain a valve adjustment with those tips.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the input Dave, Dan and Wythac.

I was actually questioning why the rocker shafts weren't upgraded when the engine was done. Figured it would be a pretty standard thing after some Samba reading.

I will go with the 6 thou valve adjustment, pushrods are aluminum.

With the solid rocker shafts the rockers shouldn't shift anymore. Think I will be fine for the season with the rounded valve ends?

Cheers,
Chad
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cwat1982
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 18, 2015 11:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks clonebug, missed that before making my last post.

Cheers,
Chad
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cwat1982
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 7:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Anyone seen a good thread with pictures on pulling a type 1 head and changing valves?

Cheers,
Chad
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Danwvw
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It should be pretty easy on the buggy! If you can get around your engine and there is nothing in the way of moving the fan shroud up a few inches you may be able to do it in the buggy. But probably need to pull the engine anyway, hard to say.
Pulling the heads is as simple as removing the valve covers and the rocker assemblies and the engine tin and the exhaust system and the 4 head nuts inside the valve cover and the 4 head nuts outside the valve cover. You may need to clean and re-seal the base of the cylinders when installing the heads to avoid oil leaks there. The Bently book or any Air cooled VW Shop manual for that mater will have the procedure for torquing the heads. While you have the heads off if the studs are the big 10mm ones make sure the case has been inserted for them.
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Glasser
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HEY!!!! I talked to you in Airdrie, you were filling up with gas at the ESSO. Sorry to hear you had issues.
When you up dated the rocker shafts to solid did you shim them properly? Are all the rockers just slightly off center of the valves. They need to be so the push rods spin properly as the rockers move.
This explains it well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWMibfXAfcg

Some more great info
http://chircoestore.com/tech_articles/?p=319#more-319

When I did my motor I went solid shafts. When I checked my rocker geometry I realized I needed to resize the push rods so went with chrome moly steel push rods. I am thankful I did this as first they are stronger and second every time I need to re adjust the valves I do not need a feeler gauge. Set to zero lash cold and away you go.
Something made that one push rod come apart. Might have been the push rod it's self or maybe the geometry is out of whack.. It needs to be looked at and ruled out IMO.

This is not for VW but the same rules apply.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBO-Mgp0Og8
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Last edited by Glasser on Sun Apr 19, 2015 4:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Glasser
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 19, 2015 4:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is a tear down i found on U tube video. I'm sure if you did some more searching you could find a few.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRAV4vmMB_s

Here is another one.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FWDfNKUdZEA
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Brent
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cwat1982
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Brent,

Great to hear from you, loved seeing your buggy on the trip. Just flipped through your build thread, you definitely do some great work, the car is awesome.

I did watch some youtube video's before changing the shafts, as well sorted through some posts on samba. I am shimmed slightly off center for all of em. The worn valve stems/broken push rod are from the first failure from when the clips on the old rocker shaft failed. Been all good since the upgrade.

I have no idea/experience about the rocker geometry and pushrod size... might need to bring it to a shop to have that looked at. I think I will need 2 new valves, throw some lash caps on all, upgrade to swivel feet adjusters, chrome moly push rods. All cheap stuff, just don't have the skills yet to do the valves or cut the pushrods. I poked around online a little and can't see a similar tool shown in the video for rocker geometry for a type 1.

Thanks for the help. Know of any central Alberta VW meets? Be pretty cool to get a bunch of buggies together for a cruise.

Cheers,
Chad
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wythac
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A bit off topic, but you should look at a different offroad treatment of a Sand Rover T:


http://seattle.craigslist.org/tac/cto/4968819771.html

I'm not gonna judge.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2015 2:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow that is unique... Looks like they did the welding while it was on the car....... yikes!

Chad

Keep an eye on the Edmonton VW club. http://www.airriders.ca/phpBB2/index.php
and the Calgary VW club
http://www.clubveedub.ca/html/main.php

The two clubs have a "Far from home" car show and meet up in Reedeer.
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cwat1982
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's a cool looking buggy wythac, but I'd take the set-up on mine any day. I should post some more pictures of the buggy... everything on it is clean.

I tried looking at it again today, was gonna send the pics to my buddy for him to look at. Get some more buggies up north.

Sounds good Brent, I will keep my ear to the ground for that meet. Just seen on Facebook there is another buggy up here. Believe there are 4 fiberglass buggies in town now... just need to get the contact info so we can start meeting up.

Meanwhile, changed the spring retainers last night (thanks to Rocky Jennings valve spring compressor, works perfect!!) and did the valve adjustment. Went for a spin and she runs great once again. Now to find a good air cooled engine guy in town for the future valve change outs.

Cheers,
Chad
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