1971 Ball Joint IRS Ghia Handling Improvement?

Bloku

Hello again all! Recently I have been wanting to make my ghia handle much better than how it does now (stock Confused

). I am just looking to throw it into a corner and come out the other side with a smile! As of now, all my ghia has are dropped spindles (that I would like to keep because I love how it looks).

I know that tires are a big part in the handling department so here is what I am running now:

Front: 175/55 (biggest I can with dropped spindles)
Rear: 185/65

Stock everything else. Even the front little sway bar (pencil sized lol)

What can I do to make this thing handle? I want this thing to stick! Also, how much will my handling decrease with using a stock beam narrowed by 2" with new cores? Also, want to get 5.5 8 spoke empi rims

How do you think this list can be improved

front-
175/55's
5.5" - 8 spoke empi
3/4" sway bar
2" narrowed stock beam with new cores and adjusters
some adjustable gas shocks
dropped spindles
1" drop from current height

rear-
5.5" - 8 spoke empi
205/55 (or 205/60)
adjustable spring plates
3/4" sway bar
1" drop from current height

other -
new steering box
have already replaced the tie rods
I need to replace the ball joints
some other seats would really help the over all feel

Also a link to some specs to set the toe and the camber would really help Smile

Thanks for all the help that this place gives! Thanks all Very Happy

How it sits now (p.s. i have a baffle with the stinger for those who hate the stinger Laughing

) -

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
1971 Karmann Ghia
1975 Porsche 914
-----
1975 BMW 2002
1976 BMW 2002 (Bored and Stroked w/ 5-Speed)
1981 BMW E21
1986 Toyota 4Runner (Dead engine and trans)
1989 Toyota 4x4 PU
1994 BMW E36 (Daily)

mlhsquared · Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:30 pm Post subject:

Here is the best primer on type one suspensions that I have read:

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=127619

It covers both Swing Axle and IRS, but there is a lot of great information there. Enjoy your reading!
_________________
Mike
'67 Ghia Coupe

-Zodiac- · Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 1:57 pm Post subject:

Just add power steering!

_________________
1973 karmann ghia - current, not the last VW.
1947 Chevy stylemaster - gone, but not forgotten.
1995 Ford F-150 - gone, hatred for it lives.

scotty timmerman · Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 2:08 pm Post subject:

i just put in a 2 in narrowed beam with drop spindles front and rear 3/4 in sway bars. its lowered a inch in the rear by re indexing the torsion bars. wheels are are 15 X 5.5 centerlines with 195 50 tires all around. After i did the narrowed beam, drop spindles and sway bars the handling improved a ton.

_________________
71 ghia coupe: Build thread http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=511738&highlight=
71 type 3 fastback auto
71 type 3 fastback manual
73 super beetle
57 oval: build thread: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8616563#8616563
63 beetle reassembly: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7458619#7458619
2332cc engine build: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8608429&highlight=#8608429
84 vanagon westfalia wolfsburg edition

Bloku · Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:26 pm Post subject:

Bloku · Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 4:30 pm Post subject:

-Zodiac- · Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:04 pm Post subject:

this is the thread - http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=497229&highlight=

unfortunately there isn't any info, or more pics on it. plus he hasn't been active since 2012 Confused

Pretty bad ass idea though, huh? not that VW's really need it - if you search google it isn't a very popular thing, apparently there is a company called howe that makes a kit http://www.pacificcustoms.com/ac425130kit.html maybe you can go up to the junkyard and use some creative engineering Cool

_________________
1973 karmann ghia - current, not the last VW.
1947 Chevy stylemaster - gone, but not forgotten.
1995 Ford F-150 - gone, hatred for it lives.

Bloku · Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:25 pm Post subject:

Bloku · Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 5:27 pm Post subject:

On the shoptalk thread about prepping a kg it said "If you're not racing, you can still add chassis stiffness by welding on braces under the floor pan, in the jack pickup point area, similar to what VW did for its convertibles. Here you'll have to improvise. The braces need to be at least two feet long." Does anyone have some info about this. It reminds me of the miata my father has. It was missing the chassis bolts and corned ok. Fixed the bolts (put in new ones) and the car handled much better.
_________________
1971 Karmann Ghia
1975 Porsche 914
-----
1975 BMW 2002
1976 BMW 2002 (Bored and Stroked w/ 5-Speed)
1981 BMW E21
1986 Toyota 4Runner (Dead engine and trans)
1989 Toyota 4x4 PU
1994 BMW E36 (Daily)

didget69 · Posted: Tue Apr 21, 2015 9:45 pm Post subject:

Narrowing the beam shortens the torsions & stiffens the front to some extent.

Chassis stiffeners - http://evhcompany.com/Ghia.html

bnc
_________________
I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door.

Lo Cash John · Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 3:51 am Post subject:

SoCalJes · Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 5:21 am Post subject:

I really don't see how that is stiffening anything on a one piece body where the floor pan is bolted all around the edge.
_________________
Jesse
71 Ghia
______________________________________
Just because it didn't come that way, doesn't mean it shouldn't have.

didget69 · Posted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 4:18 pm Post subject:

rockerarm · Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:33 pm Post subject:

This is a topic that is welcomed by many. I think it needs to be asked, and addressed by the responders, what are the expectations of the poster (IE: full street drivable to track us) as there will be compromises with the choices.
Personally, I prefer a balance that meets my needs, which would be street drivable but uprated handling with current SoCal road conditions. I like the use of the 914 steel wheels, especially in the back where body clearance could be. Sure, these oem wheels are difficult to find but there are still people welding them up to a customers specs. (With these wheels I use stock lug bolts. I have seen some aftermarket wheels where lugs don't get full thread depth).
Some many question the use of a rear bar, as this could cause more oversteer. On a lower speed autocross may be ok but on a street car at high speeds may be too much. But they are cheap and easy to R&R.
Hope this helps, Bill.

CiderGuy · Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:14 pm Post subject:

Kaygee · Samba Member Joined: May 30, 2007 Posts: 138 Location: WNC

FJCamper on that shoptalkforum link is the one to pay attention to.
I can't believe that a narrowed front beam has benefits although it may feel stiffer. (that what she said?)

rockerarm · Posted: Sat May 23, 2015 1:46 pm Post subject:

Hi. I rethought my last post and wanted to add something. I have read and fully believe the concept that tires would be the best single improvement in a car's handling.
Long time ago, I bought a '69 squareback and was driving it home on Los Angeles' freeways. An idiot jumped from the fast lane over to an exit and I had to make a quick steering change to avoid him. This car was all stock and had 4 Semperit fabric radials. The oversteer took 6 months off my life that day. Fast forward and I was at a swap meet and saw this old guy selling used tires. I recognized a popular tread pattern and asked about the pair. They were Pirelli CN36, 185/70VR15, tires and were 60% worn out. I got them and mounted them on a pair of 914 steel wheels, 5 1/2"wide, onto the rear. That type 3 would not oversteer on even somewhat aggressive driving. This car prior to this handled like a boat in water! Now, total confidence with no other modifications.
I think if one was to google something like "effects slip angles have on car handling", there is some good reading to be applied to even street driven cars.
Hope this helps, Bill.

Bruce

Bloku · Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 4:26 pm Post subject:

Humm really? Would the front's grip and the back's grip be too different? What about some 195s? It would fit better also. I looked a bit at offset and so forth and noticed the thing about the empi 8s. What about 4 lug sprintstars? How are those in the handling world? they would be 5.5" rims. Thanks for the help!
_________________
1971 Karmann Ghia
1975 Porsche 914
-----
1975 BMW 2002
1976 BMW 2002 (Bored and Stroked w/ 5-Speed)
1981 BMW E21
1986 Toyota 4Runner (Dead engine and trans)
1989 Toyota 4x4 PU
1994 BMW E36 (Daily)

kurt912 · Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 5:13 pm Post subject:

Are you happy with the balance as is? Or do you want more understeer? Or more oversteer? But with an IRS rear there isn't too much oversteer to mitigate anyway. I believe the Shop Talk forum thread is your best source of information. That guy knows what he's talking about.

Personally I find some oversteer more fun than understeer or "perfect 50/50 weight distribution".
_________________
1964 MG Midget MK1 Monte Carlo Replica
1969 Karmann Ghia Coupe
1972 Mercedes 250 Coupe


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1971 Ball Joint IRS Ghia Handling Improvement?
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