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Questions after 1st Drive on a Fresh 2276 just Installed
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jl_1303
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 5:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MURZI wrote:
28


And what does idle timing read?

When I was tuning for LBI using the 70s idle jets, #1 cylinder did not respond well to the mixing screw. This had me worried. Hope that it is not clogged up nor the notorious Dell drip. Is there a way to find out?
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Downtown Brown
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been following along as you problem solve -reading about clutch chatter and tube repairs I thought about a post about a CSP kafer bar hookup problem and that you had a mid mount installed . Did you get the kafer bar hooked up or put in a engine support bar ? ( just checking ) Smile
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MURZI
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the timing thing.. It's 10 BTDC.

First thing I would do is swap jets to what I recommended. It will get you in the ballpark. The 200's will bring mains in sooner. Change plugs. Drive it for a week and report back.
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jl_1303
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Downtown Brown wrote:
I've been following along as you problem solve -reading about clutch chatter and tube repairs I thought about a post about a CSP kafer bar hookup problem and that you had a mid mount installed . Did you get the kafer bar hooked up or put in a engine support bar ? ( just checking ) Smile


I tried but could not clear the Kafer bar from the heater boxes. I am planing to go for the Berg traction bar, just like what Glenn did.
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MURZI
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stock heater boxes ?
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jl_1303
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PostPosted: Wed May 20, 2015 3:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MURZI wrote:
Stock heater boxes ?


They are the enlarged ones that came with the 1 5/8" A1 sidewinder exhaust system.
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jl_1303
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 5:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

While fighting the clutch chatter issue, I continued to tune the carbs for LBIs today.

Since I changed the idle jets from 70s (when the 70s were used, I was likely running on 3 cylinders only sometimes judging by the plug colors I posted earlier) to 65s, I noticed that the car runs smoother and with more power. However, I also noticed that the oil temp, which I have been worrying about, has not really come down. Today, after adjusting for LBIs (tried 8 Deg and 12 Deg idle timing, idle speed targeted 900-950 rpm), I drove the car around town lightly, the oil temp climbed easily to 230F without me pushing it at all. When I slowed down and pulled over the roadside, the engine would idle at 230F, and very slowly climb up (I used an infrared temp gun to check). This happened with both 8 Deg and 12 Deg idle timing. In addition, at that temp, the warm 3500 rpm oil pressure was about 42-43 PSI.

Another interesting thing I came to notice is before I took the car for the drive, I took the air filters off both carbs to sync them with the snail. I originally had the breather tower vent to the right carb thru a bung on the air filter top. After adjusting the required idle timing, LBIs and idle speed to about 900-950 rpm, I put everything back on and checked the idle speed again. At that time, when the car was still stationery, the idle speed remained fairly much the same. However, when I started driving the car, the idle speed would drop to about 750 rpm at the light which is only 300m down the road and would continue to behave like that.

I went back home, detached the breather fitting at the car air cleaner top, drove the car again, the idle speed would come back up to about 900-950 rpm and stayed that way when I stopped at the traffic lights. Therefore, I concluded that the breather venting has an significant impact on the way the engine runs.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I vented both valve covers to the Berg Breather Tower and then in turn to the right carb. I always thought this was the proper way to vent the engine.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Does it mean that my engine is having too much blow-by, that gave rise to the elevated oil temp and drop of idle speed when the vent-to-carb is on? FWIW, the CHT appeared OK, as in the light drive around town session, which is about 40mins, the CHT most of the time read b/w 290-340F, and very rarely climbed beyond 350F.
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[email protected]
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 7:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not like venting the crankcase to the carbs. Using a breather box eliminates this contamination.

You can get away with it on a stock or very mild engine, but as the tune gets more refined the engine can have problems with the blow-by. Using a box prevents this.

Understand your engine is still new, and the rings are likely not fully sealed yet. It's tight too.

The only thing I'd recommend checking for now is that your cooler relief spring is not "soft". If it is, the cooler will be bypassed at a relatively low pressure, and run hotter than it should.

Also, the jetting is NOT going to change the oil temps. Oil temps are related to RPM, oil pressure, and friction (dual spring engines run hotter oil temps than single springs, for example).

230F is not too hot. Drive the car, and just keep an eye on things. If the oil temps keep climbing, at 250 pull over. You have to get some miles on the engine for things to loosen up.

What oil are you using?
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74 Thing
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like a convertible from your photo. Is the top down and are your tests on the freeway-convertibles run way hotter than started VWs with the top down on the freeway as air is redirected. It may be worth it to prop the decklid at the bottom as a test using a tennis ball with a slit cut in it. It is a cheap way to test it.

You can also run a small clear plastic tube and connect it in the engine compartment to one of the tabs on the fan shroud that you use for the wires then run it through the closed decklid vent holes and up to the passenger compartment and into a bottle of water. While driving if water is sucked up into the tube then you are not getting enough air into the engine compartment. The tube should only cost a few dollars at the local hardware store.
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 10:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you looked into the 3 locations that the cluth tube is welded inside
the tunnel, to see if there broken? That will give you your clutch chatter.
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jl_1303
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 12:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcdragracer wrote:
Have you looked into the 3 locations that the cluth tube is welded inside
the tunnel, to see if there broken? That will give you your clutch chatter.


I have not checked. Please advise where these 3 locations are.
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[email protected] wrote:
I do not like venting the crankcase to the carbs. Using a breather box eliminates this contamination.

You can get away with it on a stock or very mild engine, but as the tune gets more refined the engine can have problems with the blow-by. Using a box prevents this.

Understand your engine is still new, and the rings are likely not fully sealed yet. It's tight too.

The only thing I'd recommend checking for now is that your cooler relief spring is not "soft". If it is, the cooler will be bypassed at a relatively low pressure, and run hotter than it should.

Also, the jetting is NOT going to change the oil temps. Oil temps are related to RPM, oil pressure, and friction (dual spring engines run hotter oil temps than single springs, for example).

230F is not too hot. Drive the car, and just keep an eye on things. If the oil temps keep climbing, at 250 pull over. You have to get some miles on the engine for things to loosen up.

What oil are you using?


In this case, which type of breather box would you suggest for the breather tower to vent to?

I am using 5W30 oil.
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jl_1303
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PostPosted: Tue May 26, 2015 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

74 Thing wrote:
It looks like a convertible from your photo. Is the top down and are your tests on the freeway-convertibles run way hotter than started VWs with the top down on the freeway as air is redirected. It may be worth it to prop the decklid at the bottom as a test using a tennis ball with a slit cut in it. It is a cheap way to test it.

You can also run a small clear plastic tube and connect it in the engine compartment to one of the tabs on the fan shroud that you use for the wires then run it through the closed decklid vent holes and up to the passenger compartment and into a bottle of water. While driving if water is sucked up into the tube then you are not getting enough air into the engine compartment. The tube should only cost a few dollars at the local hardware store.


I thought of this and have used a tennis ball to put the lid ajar for more air but it made no difference.
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 1:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The 1st one approx 7 1/2 in back from the front of the tunnel at the inside of
the car, the sec right at about where the e brake handle is, the 3rd is right
under the inspection plate in the back where you access the shift coupler, these are
extremely common to break i have welded many over ther years, the front 2 are
inside the tunnel, you have to cut an opening in the tunnel to access and reweld.

With these tabs broken it is very common to get cluth chatter.
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 3:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcdragracer wrote:
The 1st one approx 7 1/2 in back from the front of the tunnel at the inside of
the car, the sec right at about where the e brake handle is, the 3rd is right
under the inspection plate in the back where you access the shift coupler, these are
extremely common to break i have welded many over ther years, the front 2 are
inside the tunnel, you have to cut an opening in the tunnel to access and reweld.

With these tabs broken it is very common to get cluth chatter.


Thanks for the info.

The back one is simple. Just open the cover plate to inspect.

In your experience, how would you suggest for me to check the front 2 welded supports?
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jl_1303
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="[email protected]"]I do not like venting the crankcase to the carbs. Using a breather box eliminates this contamination.

You can get away with it on a stock or very mild engine, but as the tune gets more refined the engine can have problems with the blow-by. Using a box prevents this.

Understand your engine is still new, and the rings are likely not fully sealed yet. It's tight too.

The only thing I'd recommend checking for now is that your cooler relief spring is not "soft". If it is, the cooler will be bypassed at a relatively low pressure, and run hotter than it should.

Also, the jetting is NOT going to change the oil temps. Oil temps are related to RPM, oil pressure, and friction (dual spring engines run hotter oil temps than single springs, for example).

230F is not too hot. Drive the car, and just keep an eye on things. If the oil temps keep climbing, at 250 pull over. You have to get some miles on the engine for things to loosen up.

What oil are you using?[/quote

I did not change anything and took the car for a longer drive today.

It was mostly 80 - 100 Km/hr cruise at 5th gear (0.82) with an engine speed of about 2500-2600 rpm. The oil temp climbed to 230F within about 10-15 mins and then to 250F a few minutes after. I then pulled over and waited for the oil temp to cool down. During the drive, the CHT had always been 290-360F, and mostly fluctuated b/w 320-330F.

When the oil temp dropped to just below 180F, I tried starting the engine but it was hard to start and when it eventually started, the idle speed was not stable. It would go down to about 500-600 rpm and then died. When re-started, it has to be rev up 2-3 times before it rested above 700 rpm and slowly climbed to about 800 rpm (Yesterday, I set it to about 900-950 rpm at idle and about 10 Deg idle timing when the car was stationery. I repeated this wait, oil temp cool down and re-start thing twice and the engine behaved the same. Sad Sad ???

At the end of the drive, I jacked up the car and probed the temp at the doghouse oil cooler exit using a laser temp gun. It recorded some 165-170F which I think is low (when the oil temp gauge was reading perhaps 220F or so). I would probably need to check the rear oil bypass spring and plunger, as John suggested earlier.

I mentioned at one time that the car ran smoother when the idle jets were changed to 65s. Today, I'd say the engine was not running really smooth, judging by the sound of the engine.

I am running out of ideas......
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[email protected]
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sounds to me like your cooler bypass spring is too soft.
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PostPosted: Wed May 27, 2015 9:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The way to best inspect the other 2 is cut a sqaure type hole flap in the side
of the tunnel
and bend it down to get a good view and to weld if needed, or you can
remove the pedal assembly and look inside with a mirror, its real close
to that opening.

Its hard but you can take a small mirror and fish it through the e brake
handle pivot point to look down inside the tunnel.
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PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2015 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In the morning, when I was trying to unbolt the oil bypass piece, I suddenly discovered that the hoses that connect to the external oil filter was connected the other way round. I then corrected this by swapping the 2 hoses.

Thereafter, I started the engine, only to find that the cold oil pressure exceeded 80 PSI and that the oil light at the dash was lit. I did not drive the car and turned off the engine immediately. I then checked the dipstick and it was showing sufficient oil level.

Could this be the oil filter clogging up when the oil was trying to go the other way? Also, does the incorrectly connected hoses at the oil filter has anything to do with the high oil pressure and high oil temp issue?

I am planning to change the oil filter as well as the oil tomorrow and see if this would do some good.
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mcdragracer wrote:
The way to best inspect the other 2 is cut a sqaure type hole flap in the side
of the tunnel
and bend it down to get a good view and to weld if needed, or you can
remove the pedal assembly and look inside with a mirror, its real close
to that opening.

Its hard but you can take a small mirror and fish it through the e brake
handle pivot point to look down inside the tunnel.


I removed the shifter today and thru which I popped a pretty primitive Android endoscopic cam inside the tunnel to try to look closely at the portion of the clutch cable tube where it was welded to the bracket.

This is a picture I obtain from the gallery, for reference.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This I believe is the fuel line.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This is the bracket to which the clutch cable tube was welded to.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This is the bottom part of the welded tube.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This is the other side...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


From what I saw (I also depressed/released the clutch pedal when I was observing), I think the tube welding was still intact and solid.

I then removed the E-brake cover to check if there were movements of the clutch cable tube when the clutch pedal was pressed. No movements of any kind were detected.

I then remove the rear coupler cover to check if the clutch cable tube had come loose. The clutch cable tube was very solidly welded and no movements were detected when the clutch pedal was pressed.

After this session, I was sort of glad that most likely I do not need to cut open the tunnel to repair any loosened welding. However, I also started to wonder where my clutch chatter was originated......What do you think it is then?
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