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ukrdan
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2015
Posts: 24
Location: New Jersey
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 Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:57 am Post subject: 1600cc enough for a dune buggy? |
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So i recently acquired a dune buggy that is in pretty horrible shape. I took the engine off and ripped it apart. it was so seized up due to rust that i just gave up on trying to rebuild it. the dune buggy came with another engine; it is a 1600cc 152255. i was wondering how i can get more power out of it. bore out? dual carbs? im new to these engines so i may sound dumb. your input would be greatly appreciated. thanks Dan.
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Bret2094
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Joined: March 22, 2012
Posts: 665
Location: Linden, Texas or College Station Texas
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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It really depends on how you plan on using it, and money available to do the build. If you are going to putt around the woods and just climb some normal hills, a 1600 will do fine. If you want crazy dangerous and fast, I would build a 1776 or larger.
Pretty cool project. A couple wire brushes and a weekend, and that rail could be cleaned enough for paint. I'd hit the while thing with a brush, power wash it, and then dry and apply some rust inhibitor like metal prep or ospho. Wash that stuff off and you can hit it with whatever paint you desire. That and a weekend brake job, and you'll be set apart from mechanicals
Bret
_________________
1959 baja beetle ragtop( going back to Full body)
1959 beetle
1960 Beetle frame Custom buggy
1962 Karmann Ghia
1967 beetle( august 66, first car)
1967 beetle (parts car)
1977 Westfalia Camper
1972 Plymouth Duster
Just another 22 year old jackass who caught the bug, and lives by the motto " NO fatchicks allowed" , I've got too many cars as is (buses N/A) |
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ukrdan
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2015
Posts: 24
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Bret2094 wrote: |
It really depends on how you plan on using it, and money available to do the build. If you are going to putt around the woods and just climb some normal hills, a 1600 will do fine. If you want crazy dangerous and fast, I would build a 1776 or larger.
Pretty cool project. A couple wire brushes and a weekend, and that rail could be cleaned enough for paint. I'd hit the while thing with a brush, power wash it, and then dry and apply some rust inhibitor like metal prep or ospho. Wash that stuff off and you can hit it with whatever paint you desire. That and a weekend brake job, and you'll be set apart from mechanicals
Bret |
how would i go about building a 1776? |
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vwracerdave
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Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15309
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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Read these two articles completely several times for guidance.
Bolt on mods for a stock 1600. You can skip down to the engine part. http://www.aircooled.net/vw-performance-easy-mods-bolt-on/
Larger engine mods requiring machining. http://www.aircooled.net/vw-performance-engines/
What you build is up to your budget limits, but a nice 1776 with dual carbs can get you 90 HP and would be a huge increase over a stock 1600 for your light rail buggy.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK |
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lostinbaja
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Joined: December 19, 2004
Posts: 4036
Location: Frankfort, Illinois
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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I have a completely stock dual port 1600 in my Manx and it will climb any dune I aim it at..in Silver Lake sand dunes.
_________________
Jerry...
If it's being towed, it must be a trailer!
"Vee Grow Too Soon Oldt Und Too Late Schmardt"
RIP Morgan
My photos
http://www.manxgallery.org/gallery/album92 |
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slalombuggy
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Joined: July 17, 2010
Posts: 9147
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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A fresh 1600 will do quite nicely in your rail. They pushed a 1800lb bug around at 75mph so in a 1000lb rail will be just fine.
brad |
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clonebug
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Joined: January 29, 2005
Posts: 4027
Location: NW Washington
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| ukrdan wrote: |
| Bret2094 wrote: |
It really depends on how you plan on using it, and money available to do the build. If you are going to putt around the woods and just climb some normal hills, a 1600 will do fine. If you want crazy dangerous and fast, I would build a 1776 or larger.
Pretty cool project. A couple wire brushes and a weekend, and that rail could be cleaned enough for paint. I'd hit the while thing with a brush, power wash it, and then dry and apply some rust inhibitor like metal prep or ospho. Wash that stuff off and you can hit it with whatever paint you desire. That and a weekend brake job, and you'll be set apart from mechanicals
Bret |
how would i go about building a 1776? |
A 1776 is NOT going to be crazy, dangerous, fast......... 
It might be a bit better but not that much.
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
Take a good long look in the mirror and report back on what you see. |
| Paul.H wrote: |
| That one line on that chart is probably better info than you can get from this place in a month |
My Megasquirt Fuel Injection Turbo Buggy Build
Water/Alcohol Injection
Audi TT intercooler
Upgraded to MS3Pro-Evo
EcuMaster PMU16
ECUMaster ADU5 Digital Dash
http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=127936 |
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ukrdan
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Joined: April 22, 2015
Posts: 24
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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So in your opinion, which brand has good dual carbs. I want something that'll last. Also which size cylinders and piston? 94mm? |
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ukrdan
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Joined: April 22, 2015
Posts: 24
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:13 pm Post subject: Is EBay reliable? |
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I found a set of 94 mm on eBay...but are they reliable? I know they sell a bunch of knock off parts on eBay.
Here's the link:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/251573919001 |
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Bret2094
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Joined: March 22, 2012
Posts: 665
Location: Linden, Texas or College Station Texas
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| Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 1:37 am Post subject: Re: Is EBay reliable? |
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| ukrdan wrote: |
I found a set of 94 mm on eBay...but are they reliable? I know they sell a bunch of knock off parts on eBay.
Here's the link:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/251573919001 |
AA makes a decent piston, it's china made but most use em unless you go complicated and run a high compression ratio and boost. Those 94 mm p/c kits require machine work to fit, just so you know. with a 94 mm p/c and stock 69 mm stroke, you wind up with a 1915cc engine. you can either get a set of stock heads cut to fit, or buy some new heads.
As far as carbs you have options, dual dells, idf's ot kadrons, but avoid the empi hpmx's or any other empi carbs at all costs.
Have you disassembled that short block to check for wear and clean? while you ave it this far you really should.
Bret
_________________
1959 baja beetle ragtop( going back to Full body)
1959 beetle
1960 Beetle frame Custom buggy
1962 Karmann Ghia
1967 beetle( august 66, first car)
1967 beetle (parts car)
1977 Westfalia Camper
1972 Plymouth Duster
Just another 22 year old jackass who caught the bug, and lives by the motto " NO fatchicks allowed" , I've got too many cars as is (buses N/A) |
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ukrdan
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2015
Posts: 24
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:56 am Post subject: Re: Is EBay reliable? |
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| Bret2094 wrote: |
| ukrdan wrote: |
I found a set of 94 mm on eBay...but are they reliable? I know they sell a bunch of knock off parts on eBay.
Here's the link:
http://m.ebay.com/itm/251573919001 |
AA makes a decent piston, it's china made but most use em unless you go complicated and run a high compression ratio and boost. Those 94 mm p/c kits require machine work to fit, just so you know. with a 94 mm p/c and stock 69 mm stroke, you wind up with a 1915cc engine. you can either get a set of stock heads cut to fit, or buy some new heads.
As far as carbs you have options, dual dells, idf's ot kadrons, but avoid the empi hpmx's or any other empi carbs at all costs.
Have you disassembled that short block to check for wear and clean? while you ave it this far you really should.
Bret |
hey thanks for the info. I am planning on taking the block apart today. This engine actually had oil in it unlike the motor previously on the dune buggy.  i see VWRACERDAVE had Mahle pistons. I rather not have China if i can avoid it. An aftermarket crank will give more HP if i understand correctly.
That Mallory distributor is surprisingly so expensive! |
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ukrdan
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Joined: April 22, 2015
Posts: 24
Location: New Jersey
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BL3Manx
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Joined: August 29, 2006
Posts: 6767
Location: Northern California
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| Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:24 am Post subject: Re: Is EBay reliable? |
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| ukrdan wrote: |
| An aftermarket crank will give more HP if i understand correctly. |
Not unless it has a longer stroke than the stock crank |
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ukrdan
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2015
Posts: 24
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 9:26 am Post subject: Re: Is EBay reliable? |
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| BL3Manx wrote: |
| ukrdan wrote: |
| An aftermarket crank will give more HP if i understand correctly. |
Not unless it has a longer stroke than the stock crank |
if i do get the 94mm would you recommend getting a new crank? |
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slalombuggy
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Joined: July 17, 2010
Posts: 9147
Location: Canada
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| Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:54 am Post subject: |
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There is NOTHING wrong with EMPI HPMX carbs. I have used them a lot. My latest race engine makes 240hp using 51 EPC carbs and my I still have a couple sets of 44 HPMX carbs that perform flawlessly. Like ANY carb, you must go through them and make sure they are ready to go. Floats get banged out of adjustment in shipping and there is often a loose screw or jet somewhere. My Weber carbs required more work than my Empis.
AA makes very good pistons and liners. I use them in all my motors and have several friends who use them. I would not use their cranks and rods though. They still have some work to do on those.
A 1914 is a lot of motor for your light car, but drive it accordingly and you'll have fun.
brad |
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Bennym777
Samba Member
Joined: April 07, 2013
Posts: 223
Location: Mexico
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| Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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I bought my buggy with a all stock 1600dp.
It needed a rebuild and I researched many options on here and everywhere.
In the end I decided to stay stock because I take the buggy into real backroads here in Mexico.
I did use Mofoco super street heads (ported and matched to intake). Everything else is stock.
New CB performace mainifold.
The exhaust is a tri mill with heat risers (carb icing occurs in the tropics).
I also used a lightened flywheel.
SVDA petronix dist and blue coil.
This build is so much more drivable than my old
This engine is much more drivable than the old motor. I bought some pistons to make it into a 1776 but I am going to sell them as it has all the power I need.
If it was just a street car I would go dual carbs but I am happy with the simplicity of the single carb.
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vwracerdave
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Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15309
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 2:28 pm Post subject: |
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What you build depends entirely on your budget. The AA brand cast P/C sets are fine for a 100 HP or smaller engine. Same with crank & rods and most other parts. The cheaper Chinese parts will work OK in smaller engines under 100 HP. As far as carbs I only run genuine Webers. I won't use any of the Chinese carbs. For what your doing with a 1000 Lb. rail buggy there is no reason to build a bigger engine then a 1776 or 1915.
If you are on a tight budget build a 1776 with stock heads, stock crank, stock rods and the dual single barrel carbs. That will give you a 75 HP. If you can afford more build a 1915 with big valve heads, counterweighted crank, and dual 2 barrel Weber IDF carbs, and can get you near 100 HP. A stock 1600 single port in your top picture puts out 53 HP.
The pistons you linked are "B" pistons for longer stroker engines. You need "A" pistons for a stock stroke 69mm engine.
The picture of the engine parts from my gallery was for my 180 HP 2276 that sees both street and strip.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK |
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ukrdan
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Joined: April 22, 2015
Posts: 24
Location: New Jersey
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ukrdan
Samba Member
Joined: April 22, 2015
Posts: 24
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 6:26 pm Post subject: Summer Project |
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| ill be in and near Panama City FL in like a week or so. anyone have any suggestions about dune buggy related stuff. once im back the buggy project will begin. it is a project for my father and i. |
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Vanapplebomb
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Joined: November 03, 2010
Posts: 5417
Location: Holland, MI
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| Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:40 pm Post subject: Re: Is EBay reliable? |
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| Bret2094 wrote: |
As far as carbs you have options, dual dells, idf's ot kadrons, but avoid the empi hpmx's or any other empi carbs at all cost. |
EMPI carbs are darn good carbs. I would take a version 2 or 3 HPMX over the new Spanish Weber IDFs...and lets not even talk about the Redline licensed Weber IDFs...
Ukrdan, if you are looking for a good distributor, look for an SVDA. Pertronix is a pretty good value for a new one these days, but the older SVDAs from bugs with Pict 2 carbs work well. You can hook them up to the vacuum port on the HPMX carburetors once you remove the plug screwed into the carburetor. You may want to get an anti-pulse valve though since it only receives a vacuum signal from one cylinder. 
By the way, a 1915 is a nice Type 1 engine. Good choice. Just have to open up the heads and case, as others have already mentioned. Any engine machine shop worth their name can do that. Standard machine shops can too, but they might charge you a bit more for their time. Do you have an engine machine shop in your area?
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=487021 |
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