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dorf_online Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2010 Posts: 21 Location: Portland, Oregon
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Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:07 am Post subject: Fabricate through rod / sway bar for front air ride, ideas? |
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Wondering if anyone has fabricated a through rod that acts as a swaybar for ball joint front end beams that are running air shocks as suspension. Seems like most are just doing the free floating through rods top and bottom.
Going to machine inserts that mimic the spring leaf packs about 1.25" long, cut halfway and dimpled to expand slightly and hold tight with grub screws. Between these two inserts will be a welded chromemoly tube to act just like a bolt on swaybar.
Requesting thoughts.
Dorf |
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SoCalJes Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2011 Posts: 1093 Location: Broward, FL
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Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:33 am Post subject: |
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I have the free style and while putting it together I had the same idea.
If it works I'm definitely converting my setup.
_________________ Jesse
71 Ghia
______________________________________
Just because it didn't come that way, doesn't mean it shouldn't have. |
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earthquake Samba Member
Joined: January 10, 2008 Posts: 3984 Location: SANDY VALLEY, NEVADA
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Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 12:32 pm Post subject: |
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I think I have heard of Formula V guys using the top tube for sway bars and the bottom for the springs but they are light.
Casey _________________ 74 CLASS 11 LOOK-A-LIKE
69 DUNE BUGGY
79 INTERNATIONAL SCOUT II
05 SCION XB SERIES RELEASE 2[#437]
95 Chevy C3500 dually
98 Ford E150
Link to Kelly J. Nolte 3/20/53 - 11/6/08
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DEATH TO CHINGERS!
[From a military recruitment poster in the novel "The Stainless Steel Rat" By Harry Harrison] |
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raul arrese Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2006 Posts: 1329 Location: miami florida
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dorf_online Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2010 Posts: 21 Location: Portland, Oregon
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Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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Raul, do you think that using just the spring pack, not mounted/fixed at the center is a little 'loose' to be considered a sway bar? When fixed at the center they hold up the car, yes but the total length would 'give' too much to offer any sway bar functionality. Am I missing something? |
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Howard 111 Samba Member
Joined: July 09, 2005 Posts: 1827 Location: Virginia
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Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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I don't run a sway bar on the front. But run one on the rear of my Ghia, and KYB gas shocks on all four corners. It handles very well. _________________ 1973 Karmann Ghia
Turbocharged, Fuel Injected
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=531270 |
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FreeBug Samba Member
Joined: March 12, 2012 Posts: 4278 Location: deepest, darkest Switzerland
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Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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The good people at VW thought it was a good idea, for the type 3. |
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SoCalJes Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2011 Posts: 1093 Location: Broward, FL
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Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:17 pm Post subject: |
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dorf_online wrote: |
Raul, do you think that using just the spring pack, not mounted/fixed at the center is a little 'loose' to be considered a sway bar? When fixed at the center they hold up the car, yes but the total length would 'give' too much to offer any sway bar functionality. Am I missing something? |
Aren't all sway bars loose in the middle and only attach at the ends? _________________ Jesse
71 Ghia
______________________________________
Just because it didn't come that way, doesn't mean it shouldn't have. |
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dorf_online Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2010 Posts: 21 Location: Portland, Oregon
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Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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Jesse, my point was more along the lines of questioning him about the leaves being less ridged than sway bar. Depending on the size of tube you use of course. |
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SoCalJes Samba Member
Joined: November 02, 2011 Posts: 1093 Location: Broward, FL
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Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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dorf_online wrote: |
Jesse, my point was more along the lines of questioning him about the leaves being less ridged than sway bar. Depending on the size of tube you use of course. |
Sorry I see what you mean now, what I was thinking was using actual sway bar rod instead of leaves so same concept of only being held at the ends. _________________ Jesse
71 Ghia
______________________________________
Just because it didn't come that way, doesn't mean it shouldn't have. |
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modok Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2009 Posts: 26743 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, not a bad idea.
First thought get some square stock that fits the squares in the arms and bore it for the size bar you will run, dimple it for the set screws. Assemble it and rosette weld the outside and you're done. Although in principle you should never weld a axle or spring..... it being welded on the far side of the sleeve should be preferable to other ways. |
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raul arrese Samba Member
Joined: July 23, 2006 Posts: 1329 Location: miami florida
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Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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dorf_online wrote: |
Raul, do you think that using just the spring pack, not mounted/fixed at the center is a little 'loose' to be considered a sway bar? When fixed at the center they hold up the car, yes but the total length would 'give' too much to offer any sway bar functionality. Am I missing something? |
I have an 8 inch beam so the shorter you go the stiffer it gets , theres also other reasons why I do it that way .. _________________ " Hot vw feature , may 2014 issue "
" 2013 Bug Jam class winner "
" Bug Jam best motor and best paint "
" 2013 Lakeland Classic Best of Show "
" 2014 Show and Shine , First in class "
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5927 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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What are you using for the actual suspension in front then? Coil overs?
Not a bad idea at all, but fitting a sway bar isn't a problem, so I've never tried to figure a different way to do it. |
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slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9131 Location: Canada
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Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 6:28 pm Post subject: Re: Fabricate through rod / sway bar for front air ride, ide |
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dorf_online wrote: |
Wondering if anyone has fabricated a through rod that acts as a swaybar for ball joint front end beams that are running air shocks as suspension. Seems like most are just doing the free floating through rods top and bottom.
Going to machine inserts that mimic the spring leaf packs about 1.25" long, cut halfway and dimpled to expand slightly and hold tight with grub screws. Between these two inserts will be a welded chromemoly tube to act just like a bolt on swaybar.
Requesting thoughts.
Dorf |
I have done just what you are proposing on my buggy, except I run stock torsion springs in the bottom tubes. It works very well. For my bar I used a solid 3/4" square steel bar and rounded off the square edges where it doesn't go into the arms. I got rid of the center holder and welded in a piece of tube so the bar can float free. I autocross my buggy and it handles like a slot car.
brad |
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dorf_online Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2010 Posts: 21 Location: Portland, Oregon
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 10:51 am Post subject: |
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Slalombuggy... I see that the Formula Vee guys also run the swaybar through the top tube and run leaves in the bottom like you are doing
What is the reasoning to run the swaybar in the top tube instead of the bottom?
These I found for sale on the web.
Swaybar instead of leaves:
http://www.campbellmotorsport.com/Pages/fv26fstswaybarsandspacers.aspx
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slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9131 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 11:58 am Post subject: |
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I did it in the top because on my buggy it's easier to get at the adjuster on the bottom tube. You also want the shocks to act directly on the arm that is being suspended by the spring. If you notice on all cars and trucks the swaybar is either attached by the link to the strut or the bottom control arm where the spring is attached and not the top arm that floats free.
brad |
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dorf_online Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2010 Posts: 21 Location: Portland, Oregon
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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esde, I will be running monroe MA803 air shocks as suspension. Fitting a swaybar under the beam won't work for me because at times I want to drop it too low.
As for being too strong, you can manipulate the twist by using different diameter rod.
Talking to my machinist friend he is willing to mill out a profile for the ends and then lathe down the middle of the rod to what ever diameter I choose from a single piece. Starting with a 1" square rod. |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5927 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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dorf_online wrote: |
Talking to my machinist friend he is willing to mill out a profile for the ends and then lathe down the middle of the rod to what ever diameter I choose from a single piece. Starting with a 1" square rod. |
You have to make sure you are using the right alloy steel, or else it's just going to twist, bend, and break.
I have seen the local chassis shop use what is called "stress proof" steel rod for custom sway bars, maybe look into that. |
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slalombuggy Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2010 Posts: 9131 Location: Canada
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:31 pm Post subject: |
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I just used cold rolled square bar, I've had it out a few times and have never seen a twist in it even with the heavy loads put on it by autocrossing with big sticky tires in the front
brad |
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esde Samba Member
Joined: October 20, 2007 Posts: 5927 Location: central rust belt
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Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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slalombuggy wrote: |
I just used cold rolled square bar, I've had it out a few times and have never seen a twist in it even with the heavy loads put on it by autocrossing with big sticky tires in the front
brad |
Interesting. Have you ever measured how much it will flex? Is it a stock width beam? I cold form a lot of steel (decorative ironwork) and even cold rolled doesn't spring back when you bend it past a certain point. |
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