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77 Riviera Owner
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Joined: January 16, 2003
Posts: 117
Location: Seattle, WA
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 Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:21 pm Post subject: Corporate New Volkswagen versus Corporate Old Volkswagen |
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I've been thinking of starting this forum for some time to get a feel for people's thoughts on this topic.
The concept started over 12 years ago when I bought my first air cooled bus. I wanted to have it checked out so I called a local VW dealership and set up a service appointment. I pointed out to the gal setting up the appointment that this was an air cooled vehicle and she said no-problem. The morning of the appointment I pulled in to the dealership service garage to drop it off and the shop manager came storming out and told me, "No way. No air cooled." while pointing towards the door, and he rudely kicked me out of his shop. At the time I assumed that this service manager's view was also Corporate VW's view, and from that point on I have essentially viewed corporate VW as traders to the vehicles that paved the way for VW to become what it is today. VW's trade mark issues regarding VW logo'd mud flaps further fed my disdain for what I thought of as "new VW".
Years later I now notice VW dealerships occasionally hosting air cooled events, or proudly showing off a split bug or bus in their showroom. Corporate VW certainly uses the old bugs and buses on their web site as part of their promotion for the new cars.
All of this has made me wonder if my experience with the rude service manager was unique experience. Is it common for dealerships to refuse to work on air cooled vehicles? If so I could understand, but would hope that they would be sensitive to the fact that they are turning their noses to the very vehicles that made them. The same vehicles that they proudly display in their ads today. Perhaps a "sorry man, but these are so old, and we're really not equiped..." would be in order. Maybe a hand out explaining why, with a list of quality local air cooled mechanics.
Is it the sad irony that it appears to be, or am I interpreting things incorrectly? |
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76938
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:36 pm Post subject: |
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3 years ago a customer came into the local VW dealership and wanted the engine in his 72 Beetle rebuilt. No one at the dealership knew anything about aircooled cars so they sub'ed it to my friend's shop.
I rebuilt it, the guys at the shop R&R'd it and the dealership jacked the price up and made the most money.
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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77 Riviera Owner
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2003
Posts: 117
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah, I would not have been pleased to know that they subbed out the work versus pointing me to someone like you with the proper know-how. Anyone willing to put forth the effort and money to keep an old VW running should be treated well. Sounds like they may have been taken advantage of a little. Although at least they did take care of their customer. Sort of. |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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The proof of VW's attitude towards Air Cooled was demonstrated when they stopped providing replacement parts and technical support.
Not unlike Apple abandoning the first generation iPad.
Other manufacturers embrace their heritage with immense enthusiast support, parts and even service. I can purchase almost anything for many classic Mercedes.... I Pay through the nose for it but I Haven't yet been told "No".
Mercedes Benz, BMW, even Mazda recognizes the importance of the Miata providing Parts and Support!
VW said F-You to the Air Cooled owners and went on to FWD and Water cooled leaving the Air Cooled owners standing there saying "what the hell?"
It wasn't until a few years ago that they realized the huge market of buyers they alienated and the lingering love throughout the World for the old Air Cooled Beetle. They have a half hearted vintage program now but really?
Their Lawyers still come after classic VW clubs displaying the VW emblem without paying a licensing fee..... Clubs PROMOTING VOLKSWAGENS!!!!!!
No..... VW has left a very bad lingering taste in the mouths of many aging and financially well off Baby Boomers!
IMHO ....... Big mistake.
When I shop for new cars VW isn't even considered.
Dave
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Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76938
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| djkeev wrote: |
| Not unlike Apple abandoning the first generation iPad. |
Now you tell me... 
I knows nothing about Apple, but my wife's friend suggested reloading her ipad to fix some problems. She asked me to do it and it went smoothly until I tried to load any apps into it.
It seems the original OS was 5.1.1 and all her apps (gmail, pandora, chrome) all required 6.0 or higher. It seems Apple will not let the original ipad to upgrade.
So now it's a door stop.
"F" Apple.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
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coad
Samba Scapegoat
Joined: September 12, 2002
Posts: 7552
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| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:18 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe change is coming:
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Ferdinand Piech, a towering figure at Volkswagen (VOWG_p.DE) for more than two decades, resigned as its chairman on Saturday after losing a showdown he had provoked with Chief Executive Martin Winterkorn, ending an era at the iconic German carmaker.
Piech, the 78-year-old grandson of the inventor of the Volkswagen Beetle Ferdinand Porsche, had previously seen off other executives who crossed him, including his own hand-picked successor as CEO, Bernd Pischetsrieder.
But this time he was unexpectedly isolated in a five-to-one vote of Volkswagen's steering committee last week, as labor representatives, the state of Lower Saxony and even his own cousin Wolfgang Porsche stood firmly behind Winterkorn.
"The members of the steering committee came to a consensus that, in the light of the past weeks, the mutual trust necessary for successful cooperation was no longer there," the six-member panel said in a statement after another meeting on Saturday.
Berthold Huber, the senior trade unionist who will take over until a new chairman is elected, said: "The uncertainty had to be ended today. The steering committee was and is conscious of its responsibility to Volkswagen and its many thousand staff."
Two sources with knowledge of the matter said Piech had resigned without forcing a vote of the committee at its second crisis gathering in 10 days.
Piech resigned with immediate effect from all his roles at Volkswagen including as an ordinary supervisory board member, as did his second wife Ursula, a former nanny who joined the supervisory board in 2012.
"Piech's departure represents a seismic shift in Volkswagen's power structure, and could foretell drastic changes in how one of the world's largest automakers operates," wrote Karl Brauer, senior analyst at analysis firm Kelley Blue Book.
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hitest
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Joined: September 30, 2008
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Location: Prime Meridian, ID
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| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 3:52 pm Post subject: |
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There's no way my local VW dealership would behave like the example in the first post. And if it indeed happened as rudely as you depict, VW would have bitch slapped that dealership.
Every time an automaker releases a new technology or engine, we hear about it in a magazine or three, Top Gear dissects one, and we drive it and love or hate it. Behind the scenes, dealerships let out a giant "Oh shit." Now they get to train all the mechanics, some being flown halfway round the world for the new training- all the while, work does not slow down at the shop. The guys who go first are chosen, spoiled and are all sons-in-law of the owner, while the last ones are the "well that's just fine, screw this place" level of employees. Meanwhile, the salesman are told to stay late Tuesday night for beer and hotwings, and are given promo packs with factoids on the fab new W12. Then, the boxes start arriving. Here come all the necessary parts, so slide that 1.5L rabbit shit outta of the way, but don't discount it, after all, we're having a gal in purchasing put together an eBay account for us to sell there. "Hey Jim, want to take this inflatable Scirocco home with you?"
I have no proof of any of this, but in my dealership dream, it's how it always goes down. 
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| EverettB wrote: |
I wonder what the nut looks like.
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'62 L390 151, '62 L469 117, '63 L380 113, '64 L87 311, '65 L512 265, '65 L31 SO-42, '66 L360 251, '68 L30k 141, '71 L12 113, '74 ORG 181
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djkeev
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Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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My dealership parts experience predates eBay by decades.
Old obsolete inventory that couldn't be sent back was simply written off as a loss and tossed in the dumpster!
If the parts manager was greedy and had the storage space, we'd mark it as written off and squirrel it away and keep a hand written inventory list of deleted part numbers.
If someone wandered in and needed a written off item it was celebration time with donuts and coffee for all or something similar..... Maybe even a little bit of personal income enhancement. Remember this was back in the days before credit cards were widespread.... Cash ruled...... Discount given for cash without a company receipt ......
Yes, dealerships have been corrupt for a mighty long time!
Favoritism ran rampant and largely unchecked...... Just show a profit at the end of the Month!
I left the industry...... It was either succumb to the corrupt way of life, take up drinking, wife beating or quit.
I quit in 1984.
Dave
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Stop Dead Photo Links how to post photos
Ghia
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=392473
Vanagon
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6315537#6315537
Beetle
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=482968&highlight=74+super+vert |
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kamzcab86
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Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 7923
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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"Corporate VW" is different from "dealer network VW" (which are franchises). Just because one dealer sucks, doesn't mean they all do. Just because one refuses to work on air-cooleds, doesn't mean they all do.
As time has advanced, I'm sure the volume of air-cooled Volkswagens going into a VW dealer for repair work has diminished greatly. Why employ a technician to service air-cooleds if those vehicles account for a very small percentage, if they're even a percentage at all, of your total repair volume?
Additionally, those techs who do know how work on air-cooleds many times leave the dealer to open their own shops or to work at an indy shop.
Furthermore, VW dealer prices for labor are now up to over $100 an hour. How many air-cooled and old water-pumper owners are willing to shell out $125 an hour (what one of my local dealers charges) for their classic Volkswagens to be worked on? In the overall VW dealer service world, I'm betting it's far and few between.
| djkeev wrote: |
| The proof of VW's attitude towards Air Cooled was demonstrated when they stopped providing replacement parts and technical support. |
Why should corporate VW continue making and supplying parts for 60-year-old cars when the aftermarket world has been and is doing it for them? (VW's own Classic Parts is stepping up to the plate, however; day late, dollar short but at least at they're doing something.)
You air-coolers enjoy bashing VW at every opportunity, but what you fail to take into account is the fact that you have a very good aftermarket world to source new parts from. Only in the last several years have companies stepped up to invest in reproducing parts, including VW's Classic Parts, but we still have a very long way to go. For a lot of parts, we have to source them from Europe or from one of only a couple of U.S. distributors, which means exorbitant prices for a lot of stuff and/or waiting forever for shipping.
Furthermore, there are VW dealers out there who refuse to work on old water-cooleds as well; for many, CIS fuel injection is a complete mystery and they don't have a tech who even knows what CIS stands for let alone knows how to diagnose problems (i.e. even old water-pumpers are turned away from dealers... true story).
Given the above, you'd think we'd be some peeved off people. But, generally speaking, you don't see water-cooled owners bitching and whining about "corporate VW", however. Perhaps it's due to us not being so bitter, there being a large knowledge base for work-arounds and DIY help online, and us being more apt to buy a newer VW. That new GTI... 
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daisy71
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Posts: 105
Location: Staten Island
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:53 am Post subject: |
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VW and Fiat seem to rely on their old cars to promote their new ones that are basically whole different cars with no similarities to the older ones except for the names
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hitest
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Joined: September 30, 2008
Posts: 10296
Location: Prime Meridian, ID
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 10:29 am Post subject: |
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Change, just as in all aspects of life, is easier to accept for some (like in Toyota, BMW dealerships) but in the VW world, change is harder to accept for one separating reason: emotion. There is no current car brand that has anywhere near such an emotional and nostalgic fan base. I can't imagine Nissan dealers lost many customers after they sold their last 260z valve cover gasket.
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| EverettB wrote: |
I wonder what the nut looks like.
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'62 L390 151, '62 L469 117, '63 L380 113, '64 L87 311, '65 L512 265, '65 L31 SO-42, '66 L360 251, '68 L30k 141, '71 L12 113, '74 ORG 181
FU#5 |
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51149
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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| hitest wrote: |
| I can't imagine Nissan dealers lost many customers after they sold their last 260z valve cover gasket. |
They might if they stopped, Nissan still sells many new parts for cars they made 50 years ago, and when stock runs out they usually make more, and not just gaskets and consumables, complex parts like signal switches ect. too. Every now and then Honda does a similar thing for thier vintage owners.
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Harris
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Joined: June 11, 2004
Posts: 1317
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:00 pm Post subject: Corpotate New Volkswagen |
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| Volkswagen died essentially when Heinz Nordorff died in i967. We are on our own. No comparison to the original and the new. The new company really should be named something else. Ford and GM still stands behind the guys with '39 Fords and '50 Chevys. Mercedes Benz does this as well. VW kicked us out years ago. |
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joe56vw
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Joined: June 24, 2004
Posts: 3202
Location: Olympia wa
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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i'm pretty sure I know which dealership the op is talking about and have had some pervious experience with them
they are complete dicks to anyone with a vw more then 5-10 years old just like the other big vw dealership in Olympia
I have even heard stories from people who have worked at these dealerships and they have said that once a part is what they consider obsolete they are order to destroy the part before throwing it away
I don't expect new vw to make parts or even go out of their way to support the classic vw hobby but VWoA has been going out of it's way to destroy it for the last 20 years at least
then they turn around and have all these ads and promotions with classic vw in them to boost sales but are still trying to destroy the hobby privately
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http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=559931&highlight=
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hitest
Samba Member
Joined: September 30, 2008
Posts: 10296
Location: Prime Meridian, ID
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| Posted: Sun Apr 26, 2015 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| hitest wrote: |
| I can't imagine Nissan dealers lost many customers after they sold their last 260z valve cover gasket. |
They might if they stopped, Nissan still sells many new parts for cars they made 50 years ago, and when stock runs out they usually make more, and not just gaskets and consumables, complex parts like signal switches ect. too. Every now and then Honda does a similar thing for thier vintage owners. |
I should have used a more personal (guarantee-able) example- NOS rear bumpers and front turn signal lenses for FJ40 land cruisers. You can find them in online catalogs- but not in the dealership. I'm emotional about FJ40s- but I'm the only one...
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| EverettB wrote: |
I wonder what the nut looks like.
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'62 L390 151, '62 L469 117, '63 L380 113, '64 L87 311, '65 L512 265, '65 L31 SO-42, '66 L360 251, '68 L30k 141, '71 L12 113, '74 ORG 181
FU#5 |
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sjbartnik
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Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 5998
Location: Brooklyn
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 11:37 am Post subject: |
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I'm not sure why you'd want to take an air-cooled VW to a VW dealership for service anyway.
The techs that work at those dealerships now don't know anything about air-cooled VWs. All the techs that did are retired or dead by now. VW hasn't sold anything air-cooled in the USA since the last air-cooled Vanagon in '83.
You should count yourself lucky if a dealership refuses to work on your air-cooled VW. They don't know anything about it, they're not trained on it, and they WILL screw it up.
Not to mention the sorry state of dealer mechanics generally these days. Diagnostic skills are long gone, dealer techs are glorified parts-swappers now. Plug the car into the computer, read the fault code, guess which part needs to be replaced, replace it, repeat.
If a car in a modern dealer shop doesn't have OBDII codes to scan, a modern dealer tech wouldn't even know where to start. |
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vwracerdave
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Joined: November 11, 2004
Posts: 15308
Location: Deep in the 405
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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Some of us don't care about VW today. I will never own a water cooled VW. VW crapped all over the air cooled era and kicked us all to the curb.
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jwold
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Joined: September 30, 2008
Posts: 2088
Location: Portland, OR
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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I wonder if people that own Model A's or T's ever take their cars to the local Ford dealer for service? Probably not, same reason I think. Ford isn't going to stock all the parts/train mechanics necessary for all the cars they ever produced. I thought dealers were required (not sure who the regulates this urban myth) to provide parts for their cars for 10 years after they finished making the car.
I often see vintage cars at my main mechanic that has been at the same place since the 20's (Bernards Garage-Downtown Milwaukie, OR).
Also the 3 man shop we take our business vehicles to always seems to have various old vintage cars they're working on for some customer. (Autocraft NW) |
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Dr OnHolliday
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Joined: May 11, 2012
Posts: 1215
Location: was Escondido now San Berdoo
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| Posted: Mon Apr 27, 2015 7:59 pm Post subject: |
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LOL! Fiat is only marketing to innocents who are ignorant about older Fiats (says one who went thru a 1960s 850 fiat stage, and who worked in his dad's 1967 1300 OT Abarth Fiat 850 coupe)
Found
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| daisy71 wrote: |
| VW and Fiat seem to rely on their old cars to promote their new ones that are basically whole different cars with no similarities to the older ones except for the names |
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1965 Type 1 sunroof Baja / about 70k miles on self-rebuilt '74 1600 and counting / SP heads and aftermarket valve keepers / non-doghouse shroud with external cooler and filter / 1.5 qt extended sump / Weber 32/36 DFAV progressive carb / 009 dist with Pertronix / 1.25 ratio rockers and ball adjusters / 1.5" stainless steel J-pipes and carbon steel baja exhaust |
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pyrOman
Fire Master
Joined: July 21, 2003
Posts: 12409
Location: Over 2002 posts deleted!
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| Posted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 6:37 am Post subject: |
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| vwracerdave wrote: |
| Some of us don't care about VW today. I will never own a water cooled VW. VW crapped all over the air cooled era and kicked us all to the curb. |
Second that emotion, plus... I made the mistake of buying a new vw fox. 
Though it did run 80mph with ease, it was a weak assed plastic vehicle, had some recall issues and dealership lousy service-less just finally did it for me! Got rid of the thing within a freaken year! 
| Dr OnHolliday wrote: |
LOL! Fiat is only marketing to innocents who are ignorant about older Fiats (says one who went thru a 1960s 850 fiat stage, and who worked in his dad's 1967 1300 OT Abarth Fiat 850 coupe)
Found
In
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| daisy71 wrote: |
| VW and Fiat seem to rely on their old cars to promote their new ones that are basically whole different cars with no similarities to the older ones except for the names |
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True confessions...
My very first car was an 850 sedan. "Graduated" to a 600D which I crammed the 850 engine into it. The tag "Fix It Again Tony" is a huge understatement!!! Not only it had to be "fixed" BEFORE any drive, sometimes it had to be fixed during it too! But man, it sure was a hella fun to drive! 
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