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BIGBUG69 Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2005 Posts: 50 Location: ISRAEL
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Posted: Sat Apr 25, 2015 1:15 pm Post subject: A/C bug rebuild project |
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Hello all
I hop it's the right forum to my questions.
I like to know what to do, so here is my situation:
I have 1500cc 70 German bug with A/C, all O.G. parts that seat 20 years.
The engine O.G. but needs to be rebuild (one piston and cylinder failed)
I'm converting the A/C to be electric compressor system, so the generator will be replaced by 75 Amp alternator with dual battery charge system.
I live in mounted hill area so need the most torque I can get from the engine.
My goal is to rebuild it to the most powerful state (considering that the case is one relief oil).
I know that it can be set to become 1600cc but what more can be done?
I will be happy to save the case original as I can and no machinery to set to much bigger cylinders than the case can hold (don’t forget the stud insert is o.g.)
So what the quality cylinder & piston set and other parts that you can offer me to get the best close to my goal?
Thanks _________________ Like air to breath
VW Bus 1975 1800 camper
VW Beetle 1969 1300sp
VW Beetle 1970 1500sp
VW Beetle 1970 1500sp |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24764 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 6:55 am Post subject: |
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Converting the AC to electric will probably be a mistake. With the mechanical compressor you just have to turn the AC off when you need that bit of more power.
With electric AC the alternator is going to just keep pulling that much more HP out of the engine to charge back up the batteries.
You probably should consider going with a 74 mm or 76 mm counter weight crankshaft and have everything balanced. Just that will give you more torque to get up the hills. That plus converting to dog house cooling system will keep it from overheating. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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marcarre Samba Member
Joined: June 01, 2015 Posts: 3 Location: United States
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Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:30 am Post subject: |
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I would stay with the compressor with the electric clutch but replace it with a new one. Sanden ,for one , makes small ac compressors that take less than 2 hp to operate.
Just my thoughts,
Marcarre |
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BIGBUG69 Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2005 Posts: 50 Location: ISRAEL
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Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 12:44 pm Post subject: My considerations |
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I think that although the mechanical compressors today are work more effective, it too much for the old engine.
The 90Amp or 75Amp alt spinning the same speed and dual charge batteries system (like camper) should do the job, with the help of the compressor controller.
Also the dc compressor with his controller is sitting at the front trunk with short pipes direct to the evaporator and the condencer is under the front car is more efficient then the old Aircon system with long hose and condencers near the engine heat.
The "side effect" is that the engine compartment stay clear and accessible, no dual carb or big compressor stand.
I've 76mm crankshaft in the new rebuild engine.
Don't froget it already work at the EV cars and Hybrid cars to.
What you thinking? _________________ Like air to breath
VW Bus 1975 1800 camper
VW Beetle 1969 1300sp
VW Beetle 1970 1500sp
VW Beetle 1970 1500sp |
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Eric&Barb Samba Member
Joined: September 19, 2004 Posts: 24764 Location: Olympia Wash Rinse & Repeat
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Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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Then you need to turn it into a complete EV or Subaru engine. _________________ In Stereo, Where Available! |
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Joel Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2006 Posts: 11099 Location: NSW Australia
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Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:07 pm Post subject: |
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If electric compressors worked you would be seeing them in modern cars.
The only reasons Hybrids have them is they run at 110ACvolts off the cars main batteries
A modern rotary or scroll compressor and an adequately sized condenser will not load a healthy VW engine down. _________________ Quick little bug, you got a Porsche motor in that?
1974 Germanlook 1303 2.5 Suba-Beetle |
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MagmaJctAz Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2011 Posts: 289 Location: Mesa, AZ
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Posted: Sat Jun 06, 2015 6:33 pm Post subject: |
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Eric&Barb wrote: |
Then you need to turn it into a complete EV or Subaru engine. |
x2
An electric car has an electrical system for an electrical car. This is no different for a hybrid car either.
But a gasoline car has a much simpler, lower power electrical system. If you'd like to reinvent the wheel, you'd best either have an engineering background, or have the money to pay an engineer.
I'm not attempting to discourage you. If you have the background, you may well enjoy your electric compressor. Good Luck!
Regards,
Mike _________________ 1974 Super Beetle. Owned since 1995. Daily Driver. Turned over odometer twice!
1971 Fastback. Check out my Fastback resurrection thread!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=627711&highlight= |
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BIGBUG69 Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2005 Posts: 50 Location: ISRAEL
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Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:42 am Post subject: |
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I didn't reinvent the wheel and background i've also. (And i'm not saying that for show-off). I realy whant to here new thinking ideas.
If i didn't see that it worked on other bugs and campers and trailers (all 12v), i will not start to build one.
The bigger the aircon system is the bigger is load on the compressor and so on...
The controller job is to balance the load that it need from the battery/alt and not to take it at once, it's Inverter.
The reason way most car companies are not using dc compressor is their calculations just like they use front wheels to drive and steer or the poor insulation on the car, mostly money.
All the things we daily use, was inveted 100 years back and the basic and Physics haven't change.
If it will work for me fine, if not i'll cry for my failure. Einstein said we learn from our experience only.
Thanks _________________ Like air to breath
VW Bus 1975 1800 camper
VW Beetle 1969 1300sp
VW Beetle 1970 1500sp
VW Beetle 1970 1500sp |
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SBD Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2012 Posts: 3269 Location: SOUTH DAKOTA
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Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:11 am Post subject: |
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I'm interested in seeing how well this works. I think performance will only be adequate, if that, but I also hope to be proven wrong. Good luck! _________________ "Just $99 down and $64 a month for 36 months buys you a brand new Volkswagen Beetle!"
mark tucker wrote: |
I wouldent waste $ or thyme on building a small motor. build it big so it dosent have to work hard.remember it's only as fast as your foot alows it to be unless you build a small turd then it just stinks as it squishes up through your toes when you step on it. |
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MagmaJctAz Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2011 Posts: 289 Location: Mesa, AZ
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Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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BIGBUG69 wrote: |
I didn't reinvent the wheel and background i've also. (And i'm not saying that for show-off). I realy whant to here new thinking ideas.
If i didn't see that it worked on other bugs and campers and trailers (all 12v), i will not start to build one.
The bigger the aircon system is the bigger is load on the compressor and so on...
The controller job is to balance the load that it need from the battery/alt and not to take it at once, it's Inverter.
The reason way most car companies are not using dc compressor is their calculations just like they use front wheels to drive and steer or the poor insulation on the car, mostly money.
All the things we daily use, was inveted 100 years back and the basic and Physics haven't change.
If it will work for me fine, if not i'll cry for my failure. Einstein said we learn from our experience only.
Thanks |
Well, it seems like you know what you're doing. Keep in mind, I've met countless people in my years who have not an ounce of understanding of physics who come up with the most bizarre ideas of saving money/fuel/planet/insert cause here.
"Why don't we run our cars off steam?" "Steam is just hot water!" "Water is cheap!"
So the idea you're proposing is utilizing inverter compressor technology to "throttle down" cooling as demand requires it. So instead of "full on" compressor engagement then "full off" compressor disengagement, you're looking for a "10%" for some period of time as determined by the controller, then "5%" as things cool off in the interior, etc...
Okay, I can see that. What parts do you have in mind? I'm curious about this myself.
Regards,
Mike _________________ 1974 Super Beetle. Owned since 1995. Daily Driver. Turned over odometer twice!
1971 Fastback. Check out my Fastback resurrection thread!
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=627711&highlight= |
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BIGBUG69 Samba Member
Joined: August 07, 2005 Posts: 50 Location: ISRAEL
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 11:56 am Post subject: |
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I know that like any system it got upside and downside and nothing is perfect.
I'll do my best to upload the project to the site and if it will run fine other can see and learn from my mistakes and make it better. _________________ Like air to breath
VW Bus 1975 1800 camper
VW Beetle 1969 1300sp
VW Beetle 1970 1500sp
VW Beetle 1970 1500sp |
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theKbStockpiler Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Rust Belt
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2015 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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You may want to join a Prius forum and ask what their mileage ,power and A/C performance is when it's 90 degrees out. A hybrid is basically a eletric car with a added combination generator/power-booster gas engine. I wonder if on hot days with the need for strong acceleration ,the A/C works for crap. Stored energy in a battery has to pay the piper at some point. I could not find the amp rating on a hybrid alternator but it has to be over 75 amps. 75 amps is barely okay for a late model car. _________________ My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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