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lost my buggy insurance in SC
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63Fiberbuggy
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 5:39 am    Post subject: lost my buggy insurance in SC Reply with quote

"Help!"...my buggy had been insured by Allstate since 1988, and as of yesterday I'm garaged with no coverage. Allstate was reviewing my overall homeowners/auto policies and decided the buggy should not be under the auto policy, and assured me they could re-write it under a Recreational Vehicle policy; however, I received a follow-up call to say they couldn't continue to cover it at all. My agent tried their Haggerty contact and got a "no" as well.

Which insurance companies (in SC) offer full coverage??

* buggy is fiberglass (titled 1963 Beetle)
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Gary0302
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If anyone here in the USA has current “full” coverage on their dune buggies, they should consider themselves extremely fortunate. I have Allstate Insurance here in NC, but it is for liability only; full coverage was/is not an option. If I was an auto insurance company, I would not offer full coverage for homebuilt fiberglass dune buggies either; and here’s why (my statement below refer to what I know to be the case here in North Carolina and I am using Allstate as a typical example; you can stop reading right here if you think that the “man” is always out to get you):

1.) If a dune buggy is involved in a collision and the owner has full coverage and the owner is at fault, an estimate for repairs has to be written by either an Allstate outside adjuster or at a collision center that is designated as a direct repair center for Allstate. As is the case with most estimates written for today’s production vehicles, the very first information that is collected is the mileage, VIN, and date of manufacture; this information (other than the mileage) is usually found either on the left uniside panel or on the left front door itself. All of this information is plugged into the adjuster's/shop’s collision repair software so that, when an estimate is written, the exact corresponding parts (either OE, A/M, or used/reconditioned) can be added to the estimate with its corresponding price for the part and labor rate. Since the vast majority of dune buggies are titled under the original VW VIN of the chassis (exceptions would be Special Construction VINs), this task would be impossible using today’s collision estimate repair software. There is no way that a typical collision center would even know where to start in order to write a proper, realistic estimate for a homebuilt fiberglass dune buggy, especially when some of the parts/wiring/etc may have been custom made or modified to fit that particular buggy. Even if there was an attempt to write an estimate that would be processed through insurance (example; someone else is at fault), can you imagine the arguments between yourself and the insurance company on what the actual value of the parts alone are worth? An insurance company is not going to be very receptive to your claim that your dune buggy body is worth whatever just because it is an original Manx with Serial # XXXXXXX. Also, there are very few collision centers that have the ability to repair fiberglass in the first place, and if they did, do you actually think that they would disassemble/remove/re-gel your entire dune buggy body just because the area of repair is not a perfect match? Nada.

2.) If after the collision, your dune buggy is classified as a total loss, there is no way that any insurance company will provide a reimbursement with the $$ amount that most of us sincerely believe that our dune buggies are actually worth. Unfortunately, because the VINs are the starting point for collision estimates, it would not take very much actual damage at all for a dune buggy to be classified as a total loss. This can easily be the case even if someone else is a fault for the collision. Here in North Carolina, vehicles are automatically classified as total losses if the damage reaches 75% of the value of the vehicle, based on the VIN and its current condition (state law). If that does happen, and if you want to “buy” the buggy back to repair it yourself, you would have to go through the process of getting a salvage title, which opens up another entire can of worms.

Are there possible exceptions to the above; possibly, I never say never. If you and your auto insurance coverage are the exception to the rule, I am extremely happy for you. I built my dune buggy from the ground up back in 2006-07, and I am very proud of the results. I also work as a collision estimator, and if someone asked me to write an estimate on a homebuilt fiberglass dune buggy for an insurance claim, I would have to politely decline. I hope like heck that I never have any sort of collision-related damage on my dune buggy, because I am familiar with the process from the other side of the desk. I hate that it is this way, but that is one of the sacrifices that we have to accept in order to enjoy and appreciate our shared hobby. Knowing what I know now, I feel fortunate to even have auto insurance on my buggy in the first place, even if it is just for liability. The End.
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63Fiberbuggy
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gary, I appreciate your comments. For clarification since I didn't state it in initial post, I only had liability for all those years via Allstate. So, you (& others with Allstate liability policies) may want to be on watch, considering you may get a surprise call as well. Also, for info...when I orginally insured the buggy, local agent was well aware it was not the "1963 Beetle" as shown on title.
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vponder
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have American National here in Georgia, Im insured up to 10 grand and its full coverage. Its 33.00 a month. You can get more coverage but up to ascertain amount you have to have an appraisal .
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Jlouis15
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 3:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have American Collectors insurance. They followed me from VA to Fl. You tell them how much you want to insure it for and they charge relative to that. I have full coverage. In a total loss scenario, they will only pay the amount you requested to insure it for. If you tried to insure it excessively, they will probably want to have it appraised. They wanted to see photos befor insuring to ensure it was not an off road rail buggy which they don't insure.
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63Fiberbuggy
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the referals guys, I'll get busy Monday with the phone calls.

Interestingly enough, just for grins I call Geico this afternoon...and YES, they will insure as a dune buggy for "stated value", so like both of y'all, it can be covered to reasonable amount without appraisal. They do want body pics from all sides, interior, and engine bay. So, looks like my panic attack will subside, just gotta run the paperwork (and price shop a little bit).

Thanks again!
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vwracerdave
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PostPosted: Sat May 02, 2015 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jlouis15 wrote:
They wanted to see photos befor insuring to ensure it was not an off road rail buggy which they don't insure.


I'm guess the "Off Road" use is why many insurance companies are not insuring Dunebuggy's any more.
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VOLKSWAGNUT
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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 6:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Years ago.. I went through a similar problem.. bought an old buggy in disarray , built it, and went for insurance... and Shocked ... "main stream" insurance companies gave me the cold shoulder Not talking ..

Talk about an oh shit moment.. Here I was,,, car is ready for the road, a customer willing to pay, cant get insurance, and that means no registration in NC and in my case.. No title as I had to complete the car to finalize the title process. I literally thought I was up shit creek.. Boo hoo! . Mad After seeing rails and buggy's on the roads in NC for years I never once thought it would be.. or could be an issue??
Even called Grundy.. and I got.. "Sir.. we do NOT insure any so called Dune Buggy's"... Confused Even after an explanation of what it was.. I may have had better luck with Hagerty.. but decided to consult other NC buggy owners first.

I soon realized.. that most of the rails and glass cars assembled from old Vw's "running around" were falsely labeled as Vw Beetles and most likely were never "corrected" even or checked by their insurance companies. That in my mind.. could get into a situation IF said insurance is needed..

Nevertheless, if you want a glimmer of hope in acquiring insurance, the key words here are "Kit Car".. most insurance companies consider "Dune Buggy's" of today as those over grown over powered golf carts.. not something that should or could be street legal..
And.. yes.. you will most likely have to use some special collector car company.

^ Just information as food for thought.

I found correct insurance thanks to a fellow Sambanite and have been "legal" ever since..

Thankfully...and hopefully will stay that way.

There are several... SEVERAL posts about insurance. So make a quick search.

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Last edited by VOLKSWAGNUT on Mon May 04, 2015 6:18 am; edited 3 times in total
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frizzardking
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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 7:51 am    Post subject: Buggy insurance Reply with quote

Both of my Buggies are insured for 20,000 each through Hagerty , but they will only insure a Meyers Manx with pictures.
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TSFR
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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 9:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm in Columbia, SC and also have my Dune Buggy insured as a 69 VW 2dr with full coverage so I'm hoping not to receive anything.

This brings up a question tho, I building my Manxter 2+2 and in SC it seems fairly easy to get it titled as a home built kit car. That being said I have a donor VW 72 that I was going to use the torsion and title from but I'm wondering the pro's and con's....insurance being one of them.

Any thoughts?
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karu
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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 2:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TSFR wrote:
I'm in Columbia, SC and also have my Dune Buggy insured as a 69 VW 2dr with full coverage so I'm hoping not to receive anything.

This brings up a question tho, I building my Manxter 2+2 and in SC it seems fairly easy to get it titled as a home built kit car. That being said I have a donor VW 72 that I was going to use the torsion and title from but I'm wondering the pro's and con's....insurance being one of them.

Any thoughts?


You might want to check with your insurer. Since the buggy is a major modification from original bug they can and most likely they will refuse any insurance claims including third party claims.
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63Fiberbuggy
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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jeff,

I dug into that question with Allstate after agent announced "we're removing that vehicle (dune buggy) from your auto policy. Here's the straight answer from Allstate, "if you had been involved in an accident, we would likely not have paid since the title is a 1963 VW Beetle". That's reassuring...not!

I talked at length with the Hagerty agent, and he stated they ONLY insure certified Meyers Manx Dune Buggies. Given that, you will be fine if you go thru Hagerty; and yes, they are very well aware of the new models that Bruce is producing. Hagerty quit covering all dune buggies due to high rate of claims being files, and agent speculated the "off-road" community was likely the reason.

Hope this helps. Oh, and I will post a follow-up once I close with Geico this week.

Bill
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weasel_ugs
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PostPosted: Sun May 03, 2015 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is interesting. When I talked to my Allstate agent about insuring a dunebuggy they would go by the VIN# used for registration. When I bought it it was registered as a 70 VW 2dr sedan and even though I told them it was a dunebuggy it didnt seem to matter.
Maybe some of this is agents personal decision to insure it anyways?
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Jlouis15
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 5:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My imp used to be titled as a 1966 VW 2dr. My dad had it titled that way since he bought it in '83. When he gave it to me, I had the same worry about USAA denying any claims if I got into an accident. When I transferred the title in VA, I told DMV that I wanted to change the vehicle description to 1966 VW Dunebuggy Convertible and they didn't even question it. When I went to USAA for coverage, they referred me to American Collector. Now my insurance card and registration actually say 1966 VW Dunebuggy Conv. VOLKSWAGNUT has it right when he said the keyword is "kitcar" when you talk to insurance companies. They hear Dunebuggy and think your off-roading every weekend.
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ace19608
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PostPosted: Mon May 04, 2015 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have mine insured through Progressive as a 1967 VW kit car, Full coverage including collision.
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prkid424
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2015 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just got my insurance in the mail yesterday through Sate Farm, full coverage with replacement value of $10,000 all for about $20/month. They have it as a 62 Beetle Dune Buggy in their paperwork. They even had me send in pictures so they know exactly what it looks like.
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63Fiberbuggy
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2015 5:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UPDATE


I accepted a quote from American Collectors Insurance today; and have Liabilty & Comprehensive/Collision policy with $20,000 replacement value with $500 deductible. It's covered as a "1963 modified kit car". They required photos of all sides, interior, and engine.

I appreciate everyone's help & sharing!
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2015 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

63Fiberbuggy wrote:
Thanks for the referals guys, I'll get busy Monday with the phone calls.

Interestingly enough, just for grins I call Geico this afternoon...and YES, they will insure as a dune buggy for "stated value", so like both of y'all, it can be covered to reasonable amount without appraisal. They do want body pics from all sides, interior, and engine bay. So, looks like my panic attack will subside, just gotta run the paperwork (and price shop a little bit).

Thanks again!


"stated value" insurance isn't worth the paper it's printed on. In that case, after an accident they will still send an adjuster out to put an "actual cash value" on your vehicle like they would with any other car and then between the "stated value" and "actual cash value" they will pay out the lower of the two. And being VW based, the "actual cash value" is probably going to be a few hundred dollars at most.

What you want on this type of vehicle is an "agreed value" policy where the value and thus total loss payout amount is agreed upon by the insurance company before the policy is written. In the event of total loss, they will pay out the total amount of the "agreed value".

The only reason you should use "stated value" is if you can't afford the premium on the true value of the car and want to claim it has a lower value. Because you certainly aren't getting full protection from the policy.
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63Fiberbuggy
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PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2015 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jhoefer wrote:
63Fiberbuggy wrote:
Thanks for the referals guys, I'll get busy Monday with the phone calls.

Interestingly enough, just for grins I call Geico this afternoon...and YES, they will insure as a dune buggy for "stated value", so like both of y'all, it can be covered to reasonable amount without appraisal. They do want body pics from all sides, interior, and engine bay. So, looks like my panic attack will subside, just gotta run the paperwork (and price shop a little bit).

Thanks again!


"stated value" insurance isn't worth the paper it's printed on. In that case, after an accident they will still send an adjuster out to put an "actual cash value" on your vehicle like they would with any other car and then between the "stated value" and "actual cash value" they will pay out the lower of the two. And being VW based, the "actual cash value" is probably going to be a few hundred dollars at most.

What you want on this type of vehicle is an "agreed value" policy where the value and thus total loss payout amount is agreed upon by the insurance company before the policy is written. In the event of total loss, they will pay out the total amount of the "agreed value".

The only reason you should use "stated value" is if you can't afford the premium on the true value of the car and want to claim it has a lower value. Because you certainly aren't getting full protection from the policy.


CLARIFICATION

While I did say Geico was willing to quote "stated value" policy; the policy I entered with American Collectors is an "agreed value". Hope this provides closure to anyone who's confused on the difference. I was thankful to find AC offered agreed value option.

.
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PostPosted: Sat May 16, 2015 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well I got my buggy Monday May 10th. On May 6th I started the process on getting ins. I called my state farm rep. Who gave me a quote of $1800 a year! Because it is not a classic, they consider it a kit car and go by year it was finished. (even thought the title says different) I then try American collectors/ Geico/ and Grundy. On Grundy im still "waiting" I snail mailed everything including a check on Tuesday the 11th. On Geico, they want $330. knocked it down to $305, but always come up with "we need this" "we need that" I finally told them to stick it up there you know whats.! American collectors = Im still waiting....... I may try progressive today. I need ins. in order to register it. UGHHHHHH.
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