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New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!)
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sjbartnik
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So in other news... I am getting that annoying 4th-gear shifter rattle at highway speeds. I understand that step 1 is going to be to remove the shift lever and pack the cup on the shift rod full of grease. What are the odds that this will actually fix the problem and I won't have to pull the shift rod to replace a bushing? Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

sjbartnik wrote:
So in other news... I am getting that annoying 4th-gear shifter rattle at highway speeds. I understand that step 1 is going to be to remove the shift lever and pack the cup on the shift rod full of grease. What are the odds that this will actually fix the problem and I won't have to pull the shift rod to replace a bushing? Very Happy


Maybe you'll have better luck, but the grease didn't work for me despite regular repackings. Replacing the bushing and installing some NOS replacement rubber bushings in the coupler helped diminish the rattle, but mine just seems to want to make noise at high rpm and periodically during highway cruising. Perhaps yours will be more cooperative. I've spoken to a few people who have said they rattled a bit even when new, but obviously I can't prove that.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

D/A/N wrote:
sjbartnik wrote:
So in other news... I am getting that annoying 4th-gear shifter rattle at highway speeds. I understand that step 1 is going to be to remove the shift lever and pack the cup on the shift rod full of grease. What are the odds that this will actually fix the problem and I won't have to pull the shift rod to replace a bushing? Very Happy


Maybe you'll have better luck, but the grease didn't work for me despite regular repackings. Replacing the bushing and installing some NOS replacement rubber bushings in the coupler helped diminish the rattle, but mine just seems to want to make noise at high rpm and periodically during highway cruising. Perhaps yours will be more cooperative. I've spoken to a few people who have said they rattled a bit even when new, but obviously I can't prove that.


Yours actually wound up being that fecking excuse of an engine that some jackass in Oregon built from scrap parts, didn't it?

Yes, the official fix is grease in the shifter cup. The reason for the rattle that VW gave was that people were driving resting their hand on the shifter. I call bullshit. yes, that can cause wear, but I doubt that every single Type 3 owner drove their cars like this.

Hint: Automatics don't have this issue! Smile
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tram wrote:


Yes, the official fix is grease in the shifter cup. The reason for the rattle that VW gave was that people were driving resting their hand on the shifter.


Ha! Well the car didn't have a rattle when I bought it, it developed relatively recently. And I don't drive with my hand on the shifter. Ironic VW says that causes it; for me, that's the only thing that stops it! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sjbartnik wrote:
Tram wrote:


Yes, the official fix is grease in the shifter cup. The reason for the rattle that VW gave was that people were driving resting their hand on the shifter.


Ha! Well the car didn't have a rattle when I bought it, it developed relatively recently. And I don't drive with my hand on the shifter. Ironic VW says that causes it; for me, that's the only thing that stops it! Very Happy


Too bad they couldn't have programmed something into it to fool you into thinking it's not really rattling, eh?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 12:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tram wrote:
Yours actually wound up being that fecking excuse of an engine that some jackass in Oregon built from scrap parts, didn't it?


Yeah, that guy is a real quack.

The new engine made it so the shifter isn't trying to jump out of the tunnel and stab me in the eye, but it still rattles a bit. Enough to be annoying at times, but only at times. In other words, I'm skeptical that there's a full cure and it seems that there will always be at least a modicum of rattle/buzz. However, Mr. Bartnik had a period of no rattle so there it is.
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Tram
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

D/A/N wrote:
Tram wrote:
Yours actually wound up being that fecking excuse of an engine that some jackass in Oregon built from scrap parts, didn't it?


Yeah, that guy is a real quack.

The new engine made it so the shifter isn't trying to jump out of the tunnel and stab me in the eye, but it still rattles a bit. Enough to be annoying at times, but only at times. In other words, I'm skeptical that there's a full cure and it seems that there will always be at least a modicum of rattle/buzz. However, Mr. Bartnik had a period of no rattle so there it is.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2015 6:40 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

So today I FINALLY got around to dropping a note on the mystery red Squareback with Jersey tags that I've seen parked in the same part of Brooklyn for months. Hopefully he/she will swing by here. Here's the car:

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Also today saw a really sweet / excellent shape white over green bay window Bus in Clinton Hill. Really really nice. No photo though.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 5:08 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Oddly, we were pumping gas into the Squareback yesterday when a guy came up to us and asked if we knew his friend who has "the exact same car in the exact same color" as us. We told him no. The guy then told us that his friend with "the exact same car in the exact same color" as us had recently run into a girl who also had "the exact same car in the exact same color". The guy left before we could help him straighten out the story. So either there's yet another royal red Squareback in Brooklyn (for a total of 3) or this guy's friend ran into Sarah in her yellow Squareback. Hmmmm.......
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PostPosted: Fri Nov 13, 2015 8:06 am    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

We're gonna have to start an NYC Type 3 Registry.
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2015 10:22 am    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

OK here's the latest on the Brake Light Switch Roundup. I'm trying to find a brake light switch that will stand up to DOT 5. No one seems to really know why DOT 5 kills the switches but it does seem that there's enough evidence out there to associate switch failure with use of DOT 5. In doing research online about the issue, I found that this seems to affect lots of different cars that use wet-type pressure-activated brake light switches like old VWs do. This includes old Porsches, MGs, and lots of American cars from back in the day when these kind of switches were commonly used.

In the course of my research I found that Harley-Davidson uses the same type of brake light switch on the rear brake pedal of a lot of their motorcycles. I also found that Harley-Davidson for a time was using DOT 5 as OEM factory-fill brake fluid on their motorcycles. Then I found a post somewhere on a Porsche 356 forum where a guy switched his 356 to DOT 5 and his brake light switches died 2 days later. A Porsche mechanic told him to find a Harley-Davidson brake light switch as it would thread right in. So I figured hey, if it worked for him it might work for me.

Now as it turns out, Harley-Davidson stopped using DOT 5 in or around 2006 or 2007 and switched to DOT 4 as factory fill brake fluid. However I figure the replacement switches have to be able to be good with both fluids as there are a lot of bikes out there still running DOT 5. Interestingly, when you look on the Harley forums, you will also see complaints of rear brake light switch failures but it seems a lot of those are caused by heat as the switch tends to be located near an exhaust pipe.

So, anticipating that I might have further failures I ordered up a few varieties of switch in the interest of furthering the Type 3 knowledge base and trying to find a switch that lasts with DOT 5.

Here's what we're working with:

First switch, which is currently installed:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This is the FTE switch. FTE is a big German OEM supplier that used to be part of FAG (the bearing company). I bought this switch from BugHaus and it costs about $20. They report that it is made in Germany. I bought two of these though I only use one at a time in the car (it was originally single circuit brakes so the wiring exists only for one switch). The first one I put in failed within a month and with less than 1000 miles of driving. Failure mode was first intermittent actuation of the brake lights and then no actuation at all except sometimes I could get them to activate with MASSIVE pedal pressure.

I took the failed switch out and sent it to Jim Adney for autopsy. I installed the spare FTE switch at the same time and so far it's still working.

Next up, the original Ate switch:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


These are NOS and also cost about $20 each. They are really nice switches but a) they are old and b) they were never designed for DOT 5. Jim Adney says the construction of these things was top-notch but that doesn't mean they'll hold up to DOT 5.

Next up we have the official Harley-Davidson switch:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


This also costs about $20. Looks like the threads are a bit longer as well than the VW switches and the body of the switch is quite a bit smaller than the FTE but it looks like a well-made product. The Harley part number is 72023-51E. Online no one knew where this switch was made but the bag clearly indicates it's made in Italy. The switch itself carries the logo of Bitron which is a big Italian OEM to the automotive industry.

Finally there is the aftermarket part for Harley:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Some people on the Harley forums had reported that this switch was better than the Harley version though just going by appearance it seems a bit on the amateur side. This is made by Accel and can be found on Amazon. Also about $20. Accel is based in the USA but there are no markings on the box or switch itself that indicate where exactly this switch is made. Which usually means it's not made in the USA.

So if/when the current FTE switch fails I'll probably try the Harley switches first as I'd rather not kill some innocent NOS Ate parts if I don't have to. I will keep the community posted. Very Happy
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 12:13 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Executive Summary: So the horn has been sounding a little weak lately. Brief testing seems to indicate problem lies within horn ring area of steering wheel. Any gotchas when taking this apart? I've been in VW steering wheels before but it's been a while.

Long Version:
Horn was sounding a little weak/feeble last night, like the ground wasn't getting a good connection. I have replaced the stock single horn with the dual-horn + relay setup from a Karmann Ghia. The original horn power wire now powers the relay and the relay is grounded via the horn button in the steering column. Both horns are powered by the relay and each is individually grounded at the bumper bracket.

So I decided to try the easy thing first and make sure my ground through the horn button was good. I took my jumper wire and clipped one end to the relay mounting point under the dash for a known good ground, then clipped the other end to the brown wire at the relay (basically bypassing the horn button and going straight to ground). Horns sounded clear and strong.

OK great my first instinct was good. Last time I was in the left front wheel well (which wasn't long ago) I made sure the horn ground coming out of steering column and through the coupler was good - all is well there, at least visually and from a connection tightness standpoint.

So next step for me is to pull the steering wheel center cap and check out the condition of the connections there for the horn bar, make sure everything's clean and bright etc. Just wanted to ask first and see if there are any gotchas in dealing with removal/installation of the horn bar.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 25, 2015 3:45 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Pulled steering wheel center cap, was expecting to see a push-on spade terminal like later cars but this one just has a bare wire end tucked under one of those screw-down clips. Took it apart, brightened up the metal on the clip (looked like it was painted), brightened up the bare wire end, and brightened up the contact surface on the horn bar. Screwed the clip down night and tight with the wire underneath (think it may have been a touch loose, which combined with the need for cleaning may have been causing the problem). Sounds great now, once again.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:02 am    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Very recently I've been getting a weird noise. I'll have to try and get a video/sound clip of it, but for now I'll post it up and see if anyone has any ideas.

I've been getting a strange steady howling noise on cold start. Seems to only happen when the engine is cold and the choke is on/engine is at high idle. It's kind of medium-pitch, steady (not rhythmic). Sounds like it's coming from the engine but there are no other associated noises or vibrations. Almost sounds like it could be an air movement noise or a resonance associated with air movement.

Goes away as the engine warms and idle speed returns to normal.

One other thing I just thought of, all the times I've heard it I've had the clutch pedal depressed. Next time I hear it I'll try putting the trans in neutral and letting the clutch out, maybe it's throwout bearing related.

EDIT: heard it today, not as loud as usual. No difference clutch in or out.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:13 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

sjbartnik wrote:
Very recently I've been getting a weird noise. I'll have to try and get a video/sound clip of it, but for now I'll post it up and see if anyone has any ideas.

I've been getting a strange steady howling noise on cold start. Seems to only happen when the engine is cold and the choke is on/engine is at high idle. It's kind of medium-pitch, steady (not rhythmic). Sounds like it's coming from the engine but there are no other associated noises or vibrations. Almost sounds like it could be an air movement noise or a resonance associated with air movement.

Goes away as the engine warms and idle speed returns to normal.

One other thing I just thought of, all the times I've heard it I've had the clutch pedal depressed. Next time I hear it I'll try putting the trans in neutral and letting the clutch out, maybe it's throwout bearing related.

EDIT: heard it today, not as loud as usual. No difference clutch in or out.


How cold is it, and what trans fluid do you have in it?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 1:48 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Tram wrote:


How cold is it, and what trans fluid do you have in it?


Seems to be howlier the colder it is. Last night it was in the 40s or so. Today it was in the upper 50s, it was much quieter. Keith says it has GL-4 in it.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 3:12 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

sjbartnik wrote:
Tram wrote:


How cold is it, and what trans fluid do you have in it?


Seems to be howlier the colder it is. Last night it was in the 40s or so. Today it was in the upper 50s, it was much quieter. Keith says it has GL-4 in it.


Hmmmm.

The noise you're describing is actually quite common in these cars as the temps get low, but 40- 50 usually isn't low enough. I remember this when it would get REALLY cold- below freezing- when these cars were still young.

Gear oil really gets molasses- like in the cold. You might try cutting it 1/4 or 1/2 with regular motor oil and see if that helps your noise.

Typically, the noise should go away completely once the car is warmed up and the oil is flowing better.

I've found that a synthetic gear oil like Redline helps quite a bit, too.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:53 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Tram wrote:


The noise you're describing is actually quite common in these cars as the temps get low, but 40- 50 usually isn't low enough. I remember this when it would get REALLY cold- below freezing- when these cars were still young.


I mean it seems to be an innocuous noise but...

if it's gearbox-related, why does it still happen if I have the clutch pedal depressed?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:19 pm    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

sjbartnik wrote:
Tram wrote:


The noise you're describing is actually quite common in these cars as the temps get low, but 40- 50 usually isn't low enough. I remember this when it would get REALLY cold- below freezing- when these cars were still young.


I mean it seems to be an innocuous noise but...

if it's gearbox-related, why does it still happen if I have the clutch pedal depressed?


It might be the grease in the pilot bearing is crusty as well.
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 28, 2015 7:56 am    Post subject: Re: New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!) Reply with quote

Tram wrote:

It might be the grease in the pilot bearing is crusty as well.


Hmmmm good thinking. We've been having a relatively warm streak the last few days so I'll try and get a good audio capture of the sound when the weather gets cold again.
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