New (to me) 1965 1500 Variant S(!)

[sjbartnik]

Here's the promised video:


Link


If you look at the gap between steering wheel and column you can see the movement. Is this normal or what?

Thanks in advance!
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[Bobnotch]

That looks like upper bearing play to me. What you might find is the plastic coating on the outside of the bearing is falling apart, or the bearing is just getting sloppy.
You'd have to get with Josh (ataraxia) to find out for sure.
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Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120

[MonT3]

Is it possible you may have left a piece out or not clipped the spring down to the column shaft or maybe a piece was left out? I had a similar problem and it was that I had to get that spring under tension to line up the groove on the shaft to get the clip to fasten. Once I got that on, the play in the column shaft went away.

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MonT3
67 Squareback
64 Squareback
63 Squareback
Engine rebuild
Trailer rebuild

[Bobnotch]

[sjbartnik]

I haven't taken the column apart so unless Keith didn't get the clip seated when he put it together it should be fine. I feel like this movement is new though, I feel like I would have noticed it before.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[MonT3]

[ataraxia]

If the column head is even the slightest bit loose this is the typical result. There's 2 Allen head cap screws holding the column head in place against the force of the spring inside the column. As you know, the steering rod is stiff because the rubber bushing is at one end and the steering wheel is at the other. The column head will move when the two cap screws loosen slightly...it's the most annoying 'feature' of this design. As a result, I've added wavy washers and locktite to my cap screws to minimize loosening and movement.

If the bearing cup disintegrated you'd know pretty quickly so I doubt that's it. There's not much force or pressure on that part-probably why they're plastic.

If the spring on the actual steering rod broke, the column head should move up and down more...but it's possible that it's worn/compressed a bit too much.

[sjbartnik]

Great info Bobnotch, MonT3, and ataraxia. I will check out these avenues and report back. Thanks!
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[sjbartnik]

So first thing I checked was ataraxia's suggestion because that's the easiest. Sure enough, those two allen bolts under the steering column were loose. I tightened them up but unfortunately that did nothing to ameliorate the play

So then I pulled the steering wheel. The circlip was in its groove just above the spring and everything seemed to be fine.

I made the mistake of pulling the turn signal lever because I thought that would help me see farther down the column.

The big spring popped out along with one of the metal discs and I had an oh shit moment. Took some time to figure out how it went back together and then even more time to figure out how to seat it back fully (had to consult the Bentley on that one). Turned into a nice little time suck.

Here's a photo from when I was in there:

Since I was in there anyway I took the opportunity to clean up the electrical connections and grease the mechanical bits that need grease. But that was a real dumb fuck idea, pulling the turn signal lever.

Anyway, everything appears to be in place yet the play in the column is still there. I can only assume at this point that it's the bearing itself.

The good news though is that after I put all that back together, I installed a RediRad. So that's neat.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[ataraxia]

If the bolts are loose, you have to grab the column head and pull it toward you before you tighten the bolts, otherwise the gap that was there will continue to be there. You're pulling against the pressure of the spring in the steering column.

If your bearings are destroyed I've got quite a few of them...but I doubt that's the issue.

The tension of the spring, tightness of the two allen bolts and location of the column head determine if the column moves as you're experiencing.

[sjbartnik]

OK I will re-do. I did note later when my head was under the column that, judging by the position of the elongated slots in the column head relative to the allen bolts, it appeared that the column head was as far toward the rear of the car as it could go.

But it's possible there could be adjustment room left there, so I'll loosen them back up, and re-tighten while pulling the column head toward me.

Thanks!!
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[ataraxia]

The column rod is only so long - meaning that there's a finite amount of space between the steering box (one end) and the steering wheel (the other end).

What you're trying to do is properly space the column head and tube in between those two ends...that's it.

You can always tell when a steering box has been replaced on a Type 3 when it's not done properly because there's a 1/2" gap between the steering wheel and the turn signal arm.

[sjbartnik]

I just went down and had a go. I was indeed able to get the column head to pull more rearward but I'm at the end of the adjustment and while I was able to close the gap a bit, the gap is still not quite as small as Bentley says it should be.

Bentley notes that if the range of adjustment at the column head is insufficient, you can loosen the clamp on the base of the column just above the steering coupler and push the column further into the clamp to reduce the gap that way.

I guess that will be my next move on another day. It sounds like you can't definitively blame the bearing until you get the column adjusted to spec.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[ataraxia]

There's adjustment where the rubber mounts are located at the dash as well.

[sjbartnik]

[sjbartnik]

So last night I drove up to Williamsburg with a passenger for an event. Uneventful. Later that same evening I drove back home with 3 passengers and while driving I noticed lots of clunky noises from the front suspension over bumps and I also noticed lots of shimmying in the steering wheel over bumps. Car drove/tracked fine but I could tell something was up.

I suspected the steering damper was blown or maybe had come loose somehow because the oscillations in the steering over bumps felt like that.

Took off the left wheel, was checking steering damper, everything looked OK. Then I saw it...

Took off right wheel, what's wrong with this picture?

So I guess I'm in search of a new upper shock absorber mounting bolt. I'm about to go reference the parts book to see if I can find the specs for the bolt but in the meantime if anyone knows for sure that would be helpful. There is a Fastenal nearby so maybe they will have what I need.

EDIT: OK it looks like I need the bolt 111 413 403A - according to info I can find online it appears to be M12 x 1.5 x 65mm with a non-threaded area for the shock bushing.

I also lost the bushing and whatever washers were or were not installed.

I have found online sources for the washers and bolt (Fastenal web site says the local store doesn't have it in stock so I'd have to order it anyway) but no one seems to have the bushing 111 413 371A.

If anyone has one laying around in a dead shock that they wouldn't mind either sending to me or measuring in case I have to get one made somewhere...I have the Boge front shocks if that matters.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[ataraxia]

I can ship these two to you for the cost of postage...original (stuck) bushings included. One bolt is definitely good - the other one has some flat threads.

[sjbartnik]

Ha!

Hold the good one for me just in case, looks like Keith came through with a spare bushing and I just got the bolt and washers in the mail from ISP West. I won't be able to get to it for about a week but hopefully by the time I get back Keith's bushing will have arrived.

If for whatever reason that plan doesn't pan out I will definitely take you up on this offer.

Thanks
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[sjbartnik]

Just got back from a trip out of town. By the time I had returned, I had the bolt and washers in from ISP West and Keith had come through with a spare shock bushing that he somehow had lying around.

So I put it all back together today. Getting the bushing into the rubber grommet on the shock was a bear, I don't know how the old one came out. I can only imagine that it was seized to the bolt and it must have been working itself loose for a while. Shame on me for not catching it.

Then the night it popped out I had a car full of passengers, perhaps that extra compression of the suspension took any remaining tension off the bolt and it fell out.

Anyway with the parts re-installed it's back to normal and that rattle in the front suspension that I was trying to track down is completely gone. I guess I now know what it was.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650

[MonT3]