Seriously thinking to buy this '63 Bug

[type1vwjapan]

Hi,

I'm in Japan (expat) and looking to buy this Austrailian Beetle. Sorry it is in Japanese, but just look at the pics if you have time. Thanks!

http://www.v-w.co.jp/forsale15/63t1_040715.htm

First off, I want to say thank to all of the other help I've received from many of you on other threads. I also have to applogize for not letting you all know more about how my hunt for a small window Beetle is going.

I have looked at numerous Beetles so far ranging from ovals to 1964, and I have to say this 1963 car isn't perfect (in terms of being correct and original), but it is exactly the type of car I need. The price and condition is just right. It really is in pristine condition overall and I absolutely love the color. It is not the original white color, but that is fine with me. It is a pearl white I believe.

I'm also aware that is is sitting on a (I think) 1971 chassis and has a later tranny and 1600cc dual port engine, which decreases the value. Not a biggie for me at all. I also noticed that is has a oval "W" deck lid, which is a plus in my book! Since I'm in Japan the RHD aspect will be kind of nice too. I hate AC in bugs, but this is a requirement from my wife since we have a 2 year old.

I was really wanting to get a mostly original Beelte, in particular a 1958 (hey don't we all!) but it is just not within my budget nor very practical to use as a daily driver in my opinion. I'm in Japan so owning two cars is out of my budget. It is expensive enough just to have one car. Taxes and mandatory car inspections are a killer over here.

I'm the adventorous type, but didn't want to risk that car being a money pit and loosing my wife's trust even more about my obsession for this very addictive hobby.

What do you all think? Can you spot any flaws? I'm not that picky and really will be happy with just an early Beetle like this one. Looks like a very reliable and dependable car. Rust free mostly. Very, very clean car!

What about the dash? I don't recognize what that black push button looking thing is. I realize it is probably the washer fluid button, but I always thought they were integrated into the wiper switch. Didn't know they were seperate like that?? Does it look stock? Modded?

yes, I'm aware of the CD player and ETC machine installed in the glove box.

also noticed that the carpet appears to be torn around the shifter and has some stain. also noticed the passenger door on the inside has a very small dent.

What about the seats? I know they are lowbacks, but are they for a 1963? I have never seen a stock bug with white door panels and diferent color seats? Maybe I am wrong here.

I definitely plan on getting rid of that shifter and changing it back to the stock one, as well as changing some of the details in the engine bay, like blacking out the coil and getting rid of the chrome oil filler cap, heater hoses, dizzy, removing that chrome thing off the tail pipes, etc. Also want to get an oil bath air cleaner that will clear my AC compressor. Love the fact that this car has the W deck lid, smaller compressor, and stand off at the bottom! Saves me quite a bit of money, time, and stress for having to worry about making those mods myself.

and not to mention I'm loving those european bumbers!!

Thanks everyone!

[codycat]

sweet car - what's that price break down to US dollar?
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Sometimes the questions are complicated and the answers are simple.
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[glutamodo]

The stock white in 1963 WAS L87 Pearl White. Some of those photos look to be that color, others not so much. (Those gaudy whitewalls and all-white rims kind of detract from the color, but that's just my opinion. I've had a white 62 bug since 1989, and it was not the correct shade of white when I bought it, but I fixed that 1993)

I'd want some under-the-car photos as well. From what I see from above looks pretty nice. Those seat covers - those look like the red ones that TMI used to sell before they reproduced the original "brick red" color - I had a set of those in my 62 that I bought back in 1992-3. Except that mine were original style... these have the seat backs with a rounded top like you'd find in 1965.

The only door panel options in 63 would have been grey and off-white, and red and off-white. Not solid white.

I suspect your guess about the button on the dashboard is correct. The original wiper switch did have a button in it for the compress-air washer. This one probably has an electric motor on it instead.

The only comments I have is to point out the lack of the main tarboard in the engine compartment - when installed properly they do reduce noise in the car. I'd get a full trunk liner as well.

-Andy

[Bret2094]

[type1vwjapan]

Thanks for all the feedback guys! wow, I taught a class and had lunch with the kids and came back to all of this!

well, the yen is really cheap now. with taxes and the mandatory car inspection (about $1500-$2000 included in the price) it is about $13,000 USD total for everything.

pretty good price for a old beetle over here. it can easily cost up to about $7,000 - $10,000 by the time everything is said and done just to import and vehichle and get it on the road in Japan. So if i see a 10,000 dollar bug for sale in cali, it will end up easily being a 20,000 dollar car.

more later have to go!

[type1vwjapan]

yes, I noticed the tarboard in the engine compartment was missing as well. forgot to mention that. oh well, guess I can address that if I really decide to get the car and have the engine out for whatever reason later on down the road.

sorry for not clarifying what I meant, but I meant off white for the door panels. I meant I had never seen a two-colored interior before, like red seats with the off white door panels. Usually the door panels and seats match from what I have seen. like red door panels with red seats, or white door panels with white seats.

also, sorry for my ignorance. does that mean this car has covers over the original upholstery? doesn't look bad the way it is though.

and thanks for letting me know about the color! it is correct I guess. cool. yes, I think i can spot the different shades of white that are present on the car when I go and see it in person.

i called about it and they told me upfront that it was a 1963 body on a I believe to be 1971 chassis if my memory serves me correctly. I know it is definitley and early 70s chassis.

but the shop that is selling the car here is very reputable and a trustable classic vw shop in Japan. very honest and friendly people as you will usually find at shops over here. if they don't know something they just tell you and don't try to feed you a bunch of bs. they said that the underneath and chassis is completely rust free and a good solid car. they're not sure when the mission and engine was last overhauled, but said it is in great condition and should be good to go for a very long time.

and about that black pushbutton, guess that means the original spare tire setup system is not functioning. oh well, but that kind of sucks. guess an electirc motor is superior though. sure that this isn't some type of Australian option. guess I could lie and tell people that was a rare Australian option back in the day, lol.

nice translation on the website. i am pretty proficient in Japanese, and that is not a bad translation, although it reads strangely as one would typcially find from using these types of free translationg tools. too bad translating tools can't input the cultural elements that are needed when using a foreign language and just literally translate everything, lol.

[glutamodo]

Oh, was this an Australian-made car? From reading entries in carburetor-related technical bulletins, I got the impression that Germany supplied the Japan market. Now I've read that Australia did retain the 1961-style wiper switch for a few years after Germany switched to the pneumatic style. The 61 setup had a large rubber bulb on the "back" (front of car) side of the switch which you'd have to pump back and forth with the knob to get it to spray.

Australian colors - there's this brochure for 1963 in theSamba Archives:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/63colors_australia.php

I notice in that brochure, that they did not offer Pearl White, but rather Polar White.

But then there's another Australian brochure from the 1963 which does list Pearl White.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/63bug_colors_australian.php

There's also this "1962" Aussie brochure as well, but I think it might be 1964 because of the license plate light being the wider style introduced that year.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/62bug_australia.php

And there's a Japan brochure from 64 as well, but it's the same brochure used in many other countries, with the text different but the photos all the same so it may not represent very well what was sold there.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/64beetle_japan.php

I can't speak for what interior options that Australia would have had in 1963. All I know is the German models. That above brochure has a photo of a white bug with red interior that looks to have the seats shaped like in the listing, but two tone. Can't really tell about the door panels, but they look like they might be all-red.

I'm just used to this kind of seat - I mentioned the red seat covers I bought in the early 90s, I just dug up a photo:

Oh, that bring up another nitpick on this for-sale car that annoys me somewhat - the door handles are installed angled way too far back. They should be close to straight up/down when unlocked - or forward when the passenger side is locked, as shown in this photo extracted from that linked-above 64 brochure:

-Andy

[grandpa pete]

Who else but Andy would notice the angle of the doorknobs ?
Mr> Andy ; we are glad you are here to keep us ALL informed and in line
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63 two fold rag
66 sedan delivery Type 6

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569619&highlight=sedan+delivery

[type1vwjapan]

thanks, all! definitely made note of the door handles! i love this site, otherwise it would be impossible for me to catch small little details like that.

so I went and say the car today and all check out great! the car really is in great condition with very little rust and only a few cosmetic defects. only a little surface rust here and there. the front apron was a little rusty and crunchy on the bottom, but they are agreed to fix it for me if i get the car.

otherwise, the entire car and chassis was in superb shape for a 50 year old car! i went over it everywhere with a magnet and flashlight, nothing suspicious going on. did the running board check, too. stepped on it slightly, no crunching! check! all running board bolts were in tact with the chassis. check! i went through just about all of Chris Vallone's useful pre-purhase videos.

also, i was mistaken in a good way and turns out the chassis and body are matching! it has a 70s tranny and engine. excuse my poor Japanese listening skills, lol.

i combed every inch of this car and they gladly let me do so and even assisted. they pulled up the carpet, jacked it up, etc. has the original floors and no rust or hole from the battery. has a nice battery mat underneath and has never even been patched up. very impressive.

they are putting in a high quality sound board, giving me a stock shifter, a nice oil bath air cleaner, fixing the vent wing knobs, door handles, adding rear seat belts, a full tuneup, and a few other details all in the purchase price.

overall was an awesome experience and the car was a million times better than I imagined. it really makes a world of difference to see these cars in person. pictures alone really do not justify the true glory and legacy of these beautiful cars.

just gotta talk to the wife a little more, hehe. looking good so far!! wish me luck!

more later! thanks!!

[dogapult]

[type1vwjapan]

so, i still really want this car so bad, but to be honest I'm mentally exhausted with this whole trying to change from my Mexican Beetle to a real classic Beetle in Japan. I don't even know where to start to begin.

I've studied up and done my homework on what to look at and ask when it comes to these old cars, but I am still far from an expert. Now, I took with me all that I can possibly do when I went and saw the car last week. I mean I combed just about every inch of this car and poked every area I suspected rot and corrosion. Not to say that there wasn't a little bit of the case of the crunchies in some areas like the front apon and bottom of the tire well area, but overall it really is a beauty!

I've been trying to be smart about the whole thing because I know this is a big purchase and my wife clearly said that this is to be the last time I ever change to another Beetle again. I didn’t take any cash with me, nor did I already decide to buy the car before I went there. I actually didn’t expect to like it as much as I did because I was suspicious about all that nice paint on there.

Yeah, how would you like to have her for a wife? lol. But, I'm the one who married her, so I have to understand her point and side with her if I don't want my life to be literally a living hell.

So, my wife was upset that I didn’t contact my local mechanic yet before or after I went to see the car because she wants a professional’s opinion on the car, not my 2 dollar one. He is the only one she trusts about these cars, but I do have to hand it to him he is a god when it comes to these cars. I had planned to contact him once I went and saw the car again to check some more details, but that was not the way she was thinking so all hell broke loose over that. She thinks I’m being very irresponsible and not handling this whole thing very well. Yes, I’m not perfect but I’m really doing my best here.

So, I contacted my mechanic yesterday and he wrote me back after he looked at the website I posted here and said that I should not even think about getting that car, even though he hasn’t seen it in person and only saw the pictures! He said that the place selling it is very reputable and he knows the guy well there who is selling the car. He said it’s an honest place and not shady, but that most of these old cars like that have tons of corrosion and rot that are hidden. He said that car looks suspicious and that almost all of these cars are rotting away, even if the look “beautiful at first glance” as he wrote me. Well, I didn’t just glance at the car, I really, really looked it and ripped up all the carpet, etc. and checked everything! Even went over it all with a magnet to make sure there wasn’t anything funny going on. There really wasn’t anything that looked horrible. Of course there was some rust here and there, but nothing you wouldn’t expect from a 50+ year old car.

I checked all the vital areas, heater channels, door pillars, door bottoms, frame head, most of the chassis that I could get to, backs of all the fenders, checked to make sure the running boards and fenders were actually bolted and screwed into the body, under the back seat, batter tray areas, floor pans, front fire wall and pedal cluster area, luggage tray, spare tire well, jack support area, bumper supports, behind the bumper supports, etc., etc. Checked the front spare tire area and the engine bay for signs of a past wreck or collision, all seemed very straight. Even rode in the car, rode great!

Paint job isn’t award winning, but they did a good job with it! All areas are painted well, no seals were painted over, no overspray, and the door pillar or headliner areas weren’t painted over like you can commonly find with a cheap paint job.

What the f**k else can I do here??!! Am I imagining things and actually this car is a lemon, or some type of diabolical scheme from this shop to rip me off with a rust bucket that is falling apart? I know I should play devil’s advocate here, but I really didn’t find anything that jumped out and screamed at me as being suspicious.

So, I am planning to still go see this car tomorrow to go through it all again to make sure I wasn’t missing something obvious, but I just don’t know anymore.

My wife told me that I don’t have to listen to the my local mechanic, but I thought buying a Beetle was supposed to be an enjoyable process. I don’t want to get this car and then be all worried about it and if there really was something I missed, everyone would be like, “I told you so!” sigh…

I really am not looking for the perfect car here. Just one I can daily drive and not cause issues between me and my wife. She wanted it to have air conditioning, be right hand drive for Japan, and be 1600cc, within my budget. Finally found it, but my mechanic destroys everything I had been working on in a 3-sentence-facebook message.

Maybe he is right, but this freakin’ sucks. Majorly.

I hate to sound like a pansy, but I’m literally in a lot of pain over here over this. To the point I’ve almost given up on changing my car.

any insights will be greatly welcomed.

As long as the major areas check out okay and are solid, even if I miss some rust issues, still shouldn’t affect me that much, right? Car can still be driven with a little rust, no? wrong?

[morymob]

At this point u could talk to your 'mechanic ' to see if he would do his inspection of the car, go with him , discuss +/- of the car, no one can give an accurate condition just by pics. U seem to own a mexicon one now, compare each, its reliability, cond,is the change a step up or down. I run into one now & then so i know the feeling, i just sleep on it & usually if i go back a lot of ' bloom has fallen off the rose' so to speak. My wife also has her own subtle way of expressing her opinion, so i do listen, it's 50/50 . Good luck, my 2cts.

[Karly]

Why don't you take the mechanic to have another look? Bring a deposit this time though - does your mechanic have any ulterior motives though?? haha is your current bug needing a lot of mechanical work?

It does look like a slightly older respray (I'm only basing this on the door hinges which aren't immaculate) - in my mind that's actually a good thing as a a fresh job hides everything where as this way you can see a couple of areas that may need attention down the track and there's no nasty rust bubbles along the base of the car then that's good.

Rust never sleeps - you buy a vintage car then part of the parcel is taking care of any rust that shows up as you go along. As long as you start with as good a base as you can afford then you will save yourself some money down the track. My bug which I bought off the original owner in great condition has needed a number of small rust repairs throughout my 10 year ownership (battery tray + bottom of doors + A pillar + top of the trunk area + spare wheel well). Check those areas regularly and kept out of the weather the rust moves fairly slowly and does give you time to squirrel away some money for repairs. It certainly looks very drive able in its current state. Mechanical issues tend to need attention straight away!
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1960 Beetle ''Heidi" daily driver
1964 Karmann Ghia project

[DrHAX]

I'm not expert but I can tell you from experience with rust.. I've ended up with this

Use the stock jack and jack it up.. if you hear anything worrying and or see it physically bend that means the heaters been compromised. Granted I imagine japan is stricter then MN so fiberglass and bondo repairs won't fly but its still a decent test to check the condition of that area.. also tap the bottom of the heaters.. if theres rust it will bend...
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Signed by the rather insane, ambitious, and very stubborn Darko

[Erik G]

the bright white paint kinda sucks. They seem to have a lot of nicer cars, like the '66 http://www.v-w.co.jp/forsale15/66t1_040715.htm

the 66 pigalle squareback is pretty sweet too
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[MomoMoto]

When I have this much angst in to a purchase, I take it as all signs to simply lay low, take a deep breathe, and if this is my 'last option' per the wife, I'd wait and see what comes YOUR way next that feels much better. The best purchases ever made, were one's that sort of came in to my life .vs me chasing them. Visit some local shows, get to know the local community...you never know, someone may have a gem stowed away...and your mechanic and you could take a look when that time comes.

Take a breather...too much angst means your too anxious and trying to damn hard to get something your not 100% confident on....
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'61 Beetle Ragtop
'15 Golf GTI

[eashc]

Out of curiosity, why do all the cars have California plates?
They are good looking though.

[slik]

I'm no bug expert but I'm learning. But I can comment on the feelings u r having. I say let it go. Your wife is upset, you are unsure etc. if I was this upset about a purchase I would let it go.

[Rome]

If the body metal is truly as solid as per your personal inspection and not somehow cleverly patched, it's quite an advantage.

The W decklid from the oval-window era is a nice mild customization and nothing to worry about. Decklid is most likely propped up at the bottom to enable more cooling air to reach the doghouse-shroud 1600.

[type1vwjapan]

Here I am again, and I thank everyone for all of the advice and support. I read all of the comments very carefully and then again, and then again.

Sat down and talked to my wife and we came to an agreement finally. She is not upset anymore after we had a nice lunch together and day out. Sometimes that is all that we need in our busy lives, is time to sit down and really talk. We are both pretty busy with our little one and jobs, so usually the time we can talk is somewhat limited during the week.

So, I got it! Will be before the end of the month before I can have it in my possession, but that is all good. I tell you, it really has been one hell of a journey and took me so long to finally make up my decision since this has to be the last air cooled vw I can buy. no more changing my car. That is our pact / agreement. Fair enough. A 1963 is old enough for me. I was simply after the smaller windows and body style. Always thought I was into the split window more than anything. Don't get me wrong, splits and ovals are great, but not affordable or very reliable in my book, especially in Japan.

Yes, the color and red seats aren't my favorite points about the car, but it still has that classic look and feel that I have been desperately been searching for. Finally found it! It even has an original oval period deck lid. I am thining to change the carpet and seat covers one day later anyways. Probably some grey seats. Interior just seems to busy. Red seats, gray door panels, dark grey carpet, and the cocos mats. Haven't made up my mind yet about the interior coordination. I just want to get in it and enjoy it for what it is now. They did offer to paint the inside of my engine bay black though, to give it a hardboard look for the time being. Not sure how they will do that with the engine still in the car. I trust them though since they are a very reputable, full resoration VW shop that has been in business for about 30 years.

I'm even getting the shop I'm buying it from to fix and change a ton of stuff that is bothering me about it. Since the car has sound padding and insulation in the luggage area, I decided to skip out on the soundboard for the time being. Will wait to drop my engine out once something really comes along.

I used my credit in other areas that I found more important. Such as fixing small rust spots and getting the entire chassis and wheel wells cleaned, undercoated, and sealed up. It really only had a few little crunchy spots underneath as I mentioned before.

They are also installing 4, 3 point seat belts for me. This was a request from my wife, and guess it couldn't hurt. I still feel like lap belts are sufficient, but no reason to argue with the boss. Just grateful that we finally came to a long-term agreement and understanding. Of course I didn't want to get the car and then have my wfie upset at my or for it to cause marrriage issues. Wouldn't be worth having it at all then. That is why I was so down and derpessed during my last post.

Can't wait! Excited that they sourced me an original shifter and know and are sanding it all down and repainting it in ivory for me.

thanks, more updates later!