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JCooper's new project -1972 VW Squareback
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JCooper
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2015 8:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Fisher wrote:
Those are nice '68-'69 highback seats with the early chrome trim! You can weld in a Bug battery box patch panel & fab your own patches out of 20 gauge steel. You can fix your left rear fender & rear apron at the same time. Cool
Put Rapid City, SD in your Signature?


MonT3 hooked me up with the black upholstery, the chrome finish was with the car when I bought it. I am looking into best option for battery tray repair. Both rear fenders will need some work, the driver's side looks worse than it really is as the sub frame needs to be pulled and inch and some of the fender bolts are missing. All in all, its a project- but has great potential. Thanks!
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JCooper
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:02 pm    Post subject: Oil Change done and now onto last of wiring questions Reply with quote

Sorry its been a bit since I have updated my progress, but it's summer time and my schedule has been a tad limited on the Squareback.

A buddy of mine assisted me several days ago in changing out all the vacuum lines and fuel lines. Needless to say, it was in dire need of attention. Most of the fuel lines were cracked and missing clamps to secure them properly. So I purchased a 25 foot roll of Fuel Injection fuel line and swapped everything out. I also purchased fuel injection rated clamps to secure everything down. All vacuum lines were also replaced. As a test I attempted to start the vehicle and sure enough, it popped and sputtered to life.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Now, I ended up changing out the oil, placed in new gaskets, and had purchased the appropriate nuts to fasten the filter plate back in place when done. Not sure if previous owner did this or not, but the oil screen plate was mis-matched with different sized nuts. I know he did replace the oil as it was fairly clean/clear when I drained it.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Also, upon cleaning the oil filter screen, I noticed more pieces of dead grasshoppers than sludge.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


New gaskets and the right nuts now hold the oil plate with filter screen back in place- and no more leaks haha.

Now I knew I wanted to re-time the engine, but here is where I am currently stuck. I have been reading on several other builds about #12 here (pictured as a 2-way valve for ignition vacuum). Some folks just bypass it and have no problems with their vehicles. Some say it makes car feel "heavy".
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

(please note that there are two old vacuum lines seen in the pics above. Those have been changed, this valve pic is a little dated.)

Below is what I believe to be the wiring (does need help..and a fuse-which I am not sure of amp).
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I would like to know how this thing is wired up. I believe the black and green/black wires go to the vacuum valve itself, with the fused link connecting to the positive terminal on coil and the other end of the wire pictured going somewhere on the transmission. Am I right? Will this help with my timing not being crazy advanced? Thanks all for any pointers. [/b]
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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not 100% sure, but my recollection is that late California automatic cars (and perhaps others) had that valve to meet the tougher Cali smog regs. They called it "Transmission Controlled Spark."

It locked out ignition advance until you were in high gear. It's a beast! Without good advance in lower gears, yes it will be a slug. In fact, it may burn up, so they allowed full ignition advance out on the highway in top gear.

What a band-aid on a bad idea to begin with! But that's what it took when the regs changed every year and had a short (maybe 3 year) advance warning for engineering such changes, get EPA testing approved, and put it into production.

If this is what that thing is, disconnect/bypass/plug as needed to get your full advance in all gears.

Are there any wires or extra switches on the tranny?

We discussed this in this old thread, too:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7621553

I never found documentation about this "feature" but it's probably buried in one of my many manuals packed away.
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JCooper
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

KTPhil wrote:
I am not 100% sure, but my recollection is that late California automatic cars (and perhaps others) had that valve to meet the tougher Cali smog regs. They called it "Transmission Controlled Spark."

It locked out ignition advance until you were in high gear. It's a beast! Without good advance in lower gears, yes it will be a slug. In fact, it may burn up, so they allowed full ignition advance out on the highway in top gear.

What a band-aid on a bad idea to begin with! But that's what it took when the regs changed every year and had a short (maybe 3 year) advance warning for engineering such changes, get EPA testing approved, and put it into production.

If this is what that thing is, disconnect/bypass/plug as needed to get your full advance in all gears.

Are there any wires or extra switches on the tranny?

We discussed this in this old thread, too:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7621553

I never found documentation about this "feature" but it's probably buried in one of my many manuals packed away.



So, I could essentially just leave out the wiring, and bypass the valve all together and just go ahead and time the bugger? Really the only other mention I have heard of this valve is through samba questions haha. Might as well give it a try. Seams like one of the Previous owners had the bypass idea in mind as I found the wiring stashed in an "extra/useless parts" box when I purchased the car.

also, I did not find a connection point on the transmission for the wiring to go. I was going on a hunch that there may be one from other forums. I am running a manual transmission, but I am unsure if in the past any swaps were done to this car or not as I have extra wiring for items only seen on automatics. This whole 2 way valve thing sounds like it was on "limited exports only", and I may be wrong but could it have been more common on automatic transmissions?

So yeah, Thanks for the comment/ suggestion- going to try to time this beast tonight or tomorrow.
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KTPhil Premium Member
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What distributor number are you running? What is the part number of the advance can?

I'd hook up a timing light and see what you have statically and at speed with and without hose(s) hooked up. Too much is damaging, too little makes it slow and eat gas.


Last edited by KTPhil on Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:47 am; edited 1 time in total
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Bobnotch
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

JCooper wrote:
KTPhil wrote:
I am not 100% sure, but my recollection is that late California automatic cars (and perhaps others) had that valve to meet the tougher Cali smog regs. They called it "Transmission Controlled Spark."

It locked out ignition advance until you were in high gear. It's a beast! Without good advance in lower gears, yes it will be a slug. In fact, it may burn up, so they allowed full ignition advance out on the highway in top gear.

What a band-aid on a bad idea to begin with! But that's what it took when the regs changed every year and had a short (maybe 3 year) advance warning for engineering such changes, get EPA testing approved, and put it into production.

If this is what that thing is, disconnect/bypass/plug as needed to get your full advance in all gears.

Are there any wires or extra switches on the tranny?

We discussed this in this old thread, too:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=7621553

I never found documentation about this "feature" but it's probably buried in one of my many manuals packed away.



So, I could essentially just leave out the wiring, and bypass the valve all together and just go ahead and time the bugger? Really the only other mention I have heard of this valve is through samba questions haha. Might as well give it a try. Seams like one of the Previous owners had the bypass idea in mind as I found the wiring stashed in an "extra/useless parts" box when I purchased the car.

also, I did not find a connection point on the transmission for the wiring to go. I was going on a hunch that there may be one from other forums. I am running a manual transmission, but I am unsure if in the past any swaps were done to this car or not as I have extra wiring for items only seen on automatics. This whole 2 way valve thing sounds like it was on "limited exports only", and I may be wrong but could it have been more common on automatic transmissions?

So yeah, Thanks for the comment/ suggestion- going to try to time this beast tonight or tomorrow.


Yup, eliminate the valve and the wiring, then time it according to Bentley (it's the only book with the correct instructions for 72 models).
If you need assistance, I'd suggest contacting RaiderSS, as he's got a completely stock 72 Square, that he keeps it in tip top condition. Cool He also uses Bentley to time it correctly.
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MonT3
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coop, good to hear it's coming to life. Almost there man!
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JCooper
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PostPosted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:17 pm    Post subject: Update Reply with quote

To all those who have followed up on my progress, I sincerely apologize for not replying in a more timely fashion. Effort has been going into ensuring that my vehicle is running in top condition. I noticed that my square was beginning to die at idle, have more difficulty starting, and eventually not fire when cranking over.

This lead me to do the following- replace cap and rotor, new spark plugs, and new sparkplug cables. However, I failed to remember to get new points and condenser for the distributor. simple test was done- involving cranking over car with cap off, and I noticed arching sparks galore. If stupid ole me would have remember the dang condenser- pretty sure this car would be up and running. lesson learned.

Still trying to get things finalized to eventually drive the square to a friends house to raise the front end. Reason for doing this is that the car rubs to bad in the front that my fender has become a shaver of sorts on the tire. Pics and more updates to follow soon- thanks all for providing support and suggestions in the many forums I have been reading up on.
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Mike Fisher
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is not that hard to raise the front end. Just put a jack under the lower ball joint to take the pressure off, while you remove the horizontal bolt. Adjust it up 1 inner spline & you should be good there.
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JCooper
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 2:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Fisher wrote:
It is not that hard to raise the front end. Just put a jack under the lower ball joint to take the pressure off, while you remove the horizontal bolt. Adjust it up 1 inner spline & you should be good there.


thanks man, I've been reading on how to do it- shouldn't be hard- just tired of working curbside.
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 05, 2015 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mike Fisher wrote:
It is not that hard to raise the front end. Just put a jack under the lower ball joint to take the pressure off, while you remove the horizontal bolt. Adjust it up 1 inner spline & you should be good there.


In addition, I found that if you take out the short horizontal bolt on the end of the torsion bar (opposite end to the trailing arm) and replace it (temporarily) with a longer bolt before you pull on the arm to disengage the inner splines the longer bolt will keep the torsion bar lined up with the spline socket and it slips back in with no fuss. The long bolt acts like a locating dowel. Once you find the new position on the splines you can swap the long bolt for the short one and tighten it all up.
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