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Found out what locked the motor up.
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4campn
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PostPosted: Mon May 18, 2015 8:23 pm    Post subject: Found out what locked the motor up. Reply with quote

Ok got the ol girl torn apart tonight. Number 3 connecting rid bearing melted. She was ceased on there on pretty good. The crank is torn up and the rod probably needs replaced. What could have caused this? The bolts was very tight seemed like more than 30 ft lbs. everything else moves freely though.

Here is how it looked when pull. All the tins that I have are attached still.
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This is number 3 piston
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Not sure but I think this means they are bigger pistons.
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Here is the scaring on the crank
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Trying to ID the engine these are the only numbers I can find. Just to make sure I order the right parts.
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So now what. Where's a good place to get things for the rebuild. Are the 20$ full engine gasket kits on eBay any good cause that seems very cheap. I know we need at least a crank and connecting rod along with rebuild things.
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Jeff Geisen
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 4:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would suggest not putting that Chinease fan shroud back on. Change the oil often after the rebuild. Missing tins contributed to the engine demise.

As well, I suggest changing the fuel pump and pushrod if you re-install the alternator.
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 5:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lack of Oil!! was/Is the issue!! get a deep sump Wink
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 6:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is your goal to make it run reliably for a long time?
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 7:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that rod and the others should be resized, Let the machinist decide it it needs to be replaced, I've seen far worse. Post a good photo of the crank journal.

Also - plan on replacing the oil cooler as you will never get all the metal out of it.
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4campn
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 8:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The oil levels was just fine. I checked them maybe an hour before this happened and after still normal. So not sure if that's it or not.
I did plan to replace the oil cooler for sure. Our plans and goals for the bus is to be able to daily drive it make long distance trips too as well and keep for a very long time.

Wouldn't mind a little extra power out if her too. With that said what if we choose to would be a good idea piston wise to go to? Or stick with what we have?

If I can get out of work on time I'll try and take the crank in to get looked at as well as get the block cleaned out.

So we have the heater tubes but no boxs going to try and find the tins to help keep her cool that's for sure. What's up with the fan shroud seems fine.
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Brian
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The fan shroud is bad because it doesn't have direction fins on the inside. You don't have heater boxes, you have what we call J-tubes.

Buy all of your tin here: http://www.awesomepowdercoat.com/

Ask him about the T4 cooler mod, it's worth it.


I would either get a new 1600 or try your luck at a stroker. 2110 is what I rock and I will never go lower. But be careful and have someone else build it.
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 9:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4campn wrote:
What's up with the fan shroud seems fine.

Yet the engine threw a rod........................Hmmmmmmm........

I'd like to see the seals where the oil cooler bolts to the adaptor and where the adaptor bolts to the case. The oil pump would also be of interest.

Looks like a former type 3 case, where's the oil pressure light switch mounted?
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4campn wrote:
The oil levels was just fine. I checked them maybe an hour before this happened and after still normal.


Oil level may have been just peachy but the oil pressure was obviously not.
That could have been as a result of overheating or some blockage in the oil flow to that bearing.


Quote:
What's up with the fan shroud seems fine.


The fan shroud is a cheap piece of aftermarket crap. Get a proper genuine VW fan shroud; it has all the internal baffling necessary for proper air direction and cooling. If you're running that junk fan shroud, you're running hot.
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, you have a second rate shroud and no rear tins. I am actually surprised it is a bearing that went verses top end problems. I am going to suggest that the oil started foaming causing a loss of oil pressure, why it took out only one bearing is the mystery.

If you don't want to hook your heat up ever then find a shroud for a T-181/ The Thing, but if you do want heat then get a dog house style shroud with all the bits and pieces for the dog house. For either make sure you also have all the bits and pieces for the thermostat flaps. The mid 70's Beetle shrouds with the venturi on the fan entrance are supposed to flow a bit more air and can't be totally blocked of as easily. Other may give you better info here.
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 10:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

three common reasons for failure are low oil, overheating of piston #3 on a bus without a dog house causing less lubrication on #3 and more heat on that cod and bearing. Sometimes being a little low on oil on a hard winding road may cause aeration of the oil as the pump sucks in air occasionally. Any air that gets sucked in goes out the rod bearings. That one has been going on for awhile.

Another cause on an old engine, and it would not surprise me on that one, is most people look at a used connecting rod during the prior rebuild and say, looks ok to me and they reuse it when rebuilding the engine to save time and money. One must clamp the two haves together in a special vice that hold the sides parallel, then torque it, then use a special bore gauge to measure it. They grow and go oval over time. Only the machine shop is going to be able to say if the connecting rods are to size of not. Sometimes on a lower mileage motor you can look at the back of the bearing and see if it has been stationary or working. If there clear shiny spots on the back then it has been working in the bore in the connecting rod. Same for a main bearing.
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 10:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
Wow, you have a second rate shroud and no rear tins.


I was assuming that the rear tins had been removed for easier removal of the engine from the Bus, but yeah OP, if you're actually running this thing without rear tins and without the engine compartment seal, you are massively overheating it basically all the time.
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lose the power pulley too!
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4campn
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brian wrote:
The fan shroud is bad because it doesn't have direction fins on the inside. You don't have heater boxes, you have what we call J-tubes.

Buy all of your tin here: http://www.awesomepowdercoat.com/

Ask him about the T4 cooler mod, it's worth it.


I would either get a new 1600 or try your luck at a stroker. 2110 is what I rock and I will never go lower. But be careful and have someone else build it.


Thanks for the link. I would love to do a stroker if funds was more. Might still as long as the tranny will hold up. I'll email them and ask about that cooler mod. Don't want to be doing this again.
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

busdaddy wrote:
4campn wrote:
What's up with the fan shroud seems fine.

Yet the engine threw a rod........................Hmmmmmmm........

I'd like to see the seals where the oil cooler bolts to the adaptor and where the adaptor bolts to the case. The oil pump would also be of interest.

Looks like a former type 3 case, where's the oil pressure light switch mounted?


Again I'm getting this bus and only had it for 5 days then this happened. This is all new to me and would love to fix it right. The case numbers I posted bc I couldn't figure out what I have. I do plan to get a new oil pump for sure
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4campn
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 11:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
Wow, you have a second rate shroud and no rear tins. I am actually surprised it is a bearing that went verses top end problems. I am going to suggest that the oil started foaming causing a loss of oil pressure, why it took out only one bearing is the mystery.

If you don't want to hook your heat up ever then find a shroud for a T-181/ The Thing, but if you do want heat then get a dog house style shroud with all the bits and pieces for the dog house. For either make sure you also have all the bits and pieces for the thermostat flaps. The mid 70's Beetle shrouds with the venturi on the fan entrance are supposed to flow a bit more air and can't be totally blocked of as easily. Other may give you better info here.


By rear tins you mean where the door catch is? If so yes that was there. The door isn't sealed perfectly IMO due to dented and no seal. We do want to add heat so eventually that will have to be added
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4campn
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another note I do not plan to just use the old rods if no good. I'll have a shop check them out. The power pulley I see all the time on many applications so don't see no reason to lose it.
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

4campn wrote:
Another note I do not plan to just use the old rods if no good. I'll have a shop check them out. The power pulley I see all the time on many applications so don't see no reason to lose it.


I see a lot of crap on other applications too but that doesn't mean they're good ideas. Very Happy

The power pulley is a really bad idea on this engine because it under-drives the alternator. On the back end of that alternator is the cooling fan. So you're also under-driving the cooling fan.

Again, overheating. This engine in a Bus needs every bit of cooling it can get. Power pulley is a no-no.

Also a general rule of thumb, with the engine installed, if you can see the ground from inside the engine compartment, you've got problems. The upper half of the engine needs to be completely sealed off from the lower half when installed. VW accomplished this with the tin and the rubber seal between the engine and the body. Make sure you maintain that seal.

But yeah get a real fan shroud and lose the power pulley or you'll be toasting your next engine right quick too.
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

power pulley on a bus is not a good idea as the prior poster explained. You need all the cooling you can get in a bus. On a sand rail you can run a power pulley.
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PostPosted: Tue May 19, 2015 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sjbartnik wrote:
But yeah get a real fan shroud and lose the power pulley or you'll be toasting your next engine right quick too.


A lot of people have been down this road over and over as the years pass, not understanding that all the fancy stuff they have bought from place like JC Whitney and CIP1 don't do the job much at all, anything sold under the EMPI name or which is chromed and bubble packed is also suspect.

As far as the power pulley, 2% more power in exchange for 20% less cooling is not a good trade off.
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