saving Frankenstein

thomasjm · Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 6:19 am Post subject: saving Frankenstein

Hello everyone,and thank you for letting me take a little of your time with a few questions,ive saved a 1963 rag top from going to the crusher just because they had no idea what to do with it ,its a 1963 volkswagon beetle original rag top on a 1974 pan with its original brakes and suspension I believe it has the original tilt steering wheel in it and that's what is giving me the issues its has the 74 brake res on it and I don't know how to wire it to the 63 fuse panel and for some reason they used the 63 ign and the 74 tilt ign to gether to start it I think I can bypass the tilt steering wheel ign and advice would be great they are also using the original turnsignal on the tilt wheel for the blinkers ,any wiring advice there would be great ,thank you again for your time ,
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63 ragtop.
71 ghia.
1970 deluxe bus
previously owned 66 beetle.
previously owned 58 big window

grandpa pete · Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 7:01 am Post subject:

PULL BOTH WIRING DIAGRAMS OFF THE TECHNICAL SECTION
Have them laminated and then you can trace individual circuts with a dry erase marker...
This is going to be like the old " How do you eat an Elephant " joke.....
One circuit at a time .....
Make up a test light and use a small amperage battery so you don't burn the car to the ground
It's all basic battery to ground ; one wire at a time..
You can add an extra fuse panel for any 70's circuts .
The easiest and most expensive solution is start with a new wiring harness for the earlier car and work each new circuit ; One wire at a time .. Laughing

NOT easy. .but it can be done

A little 63 three fold ragtop inspiration ; Grand pa Pete's "Purple Car "

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
63 two fold rag
66 sedan delivery Type 6

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569619&highlight=sedan+delivery

thomasjm · Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 7:25 am Post subject:

thank you,now I have those and starting to wire headlight switch up ,now is it possible to just bypass the ignition on the 74 tilt wheel and run everything to stock ignition.
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_________________
63 ragtop.
71 ghia.
1970 deluxe bus
previously owned 66 beetle.
previously owned 58 big window

grandpa pete · Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 7:28 am Post subject:

Yes ; wire it the old way ....
simpler and easy to fix

Why do you have a HUGE hole in the bulkhead ???...crotch cooler Laughing

What does the yellow extension cord do ? Surprised

More photos please.
_________________
63 two fold rag
66 sedan delivery Type 6

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569619&highlight=sedan+delivery

grandpa pete · Posted: Thu May 21, 2015 7:34 am Post subject:

Have you read up on how to clean up old wire terminal ends ?

Page 7 in my build thread below Shocked

_________________
63 two fold rag
66 sedan delivery Type 6

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569619&highlight=sedan+delivery

bluebus86 · Banned Joined: September 02, 2010 Posts: 11075

thomasjm · Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 7:58 am Post subject:

thank you for the good advice grandpa pete ,,, I have purchased a new harness and ran it ,but whoever worked on this bug must have took a 100 ft extension cord and cut it up into sections and ran part of it to the left front head light and part to the right headlight then ran 2 sections to the rear for the tail lights and yes they ran another section of it to the rear for the alt dummy light the oil dummy light and left the 3rd one not hooked up as far as the hole in the bulkhead that is where they cut a section out to run the wires from the 74 tilt steering wheel (blinkers headlight and starter wires)its confusing to me on how to eliminate the tilt tilt steering wheel wires with out eliminating the the blinker switch power ,who wants to use 2 ignitions 2 start there car Evil or Very Mad

and on top of that I had a wire coming from the headlight switch down to the fuse block that caught on fire so im nervous about hooking that up ,my dilemma, yes going to replace extension cord with correct wires Very Happy

any help would be greatly appreciated thank you in advance
_________________
63 ragtop.
71 ghia.
1970 deluxe bus
previously owned 66 beetle.
previously owned 58 big window

hitest · Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 8:26 am Post subject:

Any amount of that house wiring needs to go. Replacement harnesses are so cheap now- there's really no excuse to not get one. If you simply must use the ignition from the later column, it won't be hard to match wires- as long as you do as Grandpa Pete says- and have two good diagrams to compare. What you don't get into is how your dimmer switch is wired- through the column, or still on the floor?

What's a tilt steering wheel? I've owned bugs since the early 80s and don't know what your talking about. If you are referring to one with the ignition attached to the steering column- that's just a later safety column (collapsing). If your column really does "tilt" you've got problems that cannot be answered in a thread- you need a professional close by.
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thomasjm · Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 8:39 am Post subject:

yes house wiring going out the door ,Its a tilt steering wheel column you pull the little lever up and you can move the steering wheel up and down ,I would like to illuminate the steering wiring all together but I need the blinker wirring but I don't think it will get power if I don't use the ignition switch,, and the wiring diagram for a 1974 is crazy looking ,thank you for the help

_________________
63 ragtop.
71 ghia.
1970 deluxe bus
previously owned 66 beetle.
previously owned 58 big window

hitest · Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 9:54 am Post subject:

This is good news! Thanks for the added info. I see too that you are using an original ignition- a great help (I'll have to look at mine- yours looks older than the car). I may be the last guy in town to learn VW had a tilt column- if they do, I'm sorry I didn't know that. My '74 Lovebug does not- it just has a simple plastic-surrounded collapsing column- with the integrated ignition switch of course. Now, if your column is not a VW piece- you need to trace and label each of those wires- and diagram how the thing grounds.

Your turn signals will require some real thought. The whole power/flash/ground circuit works differently with a later switch vs. the '63 one. Does your turn signal lever also work the high/low dimmer? If so, does it work?

You've got a real project there. Standing by.
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thomasjm · Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 10:24 am Post subject:

im not sure if the turnsignals work or dimmer works I haven't powered any of that up yet ,the guy I got it from said nothing worked on the wiring for lights and blinkers I haven't had it long,i wanted to get the rest of the wiring safe and new before diving into the steering column ,and you have me questioning the tilt steering wheel lol im not sure where to go or who to ask if beetle ever had a tilt steering wheel in 1974 ,I geuss im going to have to run a hot wire to the ignition wire on the colonm and see if I get power to the turn signals and headlights and dimmer ,back to the drawing board lol
_________________
63 ragtop.
71 ghia.
1970 deluxe bus
previously owned 66 beetle.
previously owned 58 big window

mukluk · Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 11:12 am Post subject:

I can tell you your tilt wheel setup is not original, nor a dealer installed item. Besides the fact one was not offered, there is absolutely no way one would have been installed by either the factory or a dealership in such a manner as shown in your pic above -- with a hole cut and peeled open crudely for the wires to pass into the trunk. If you post pics of the wheel and column in question, somebody may be able to identify what vehicle it came out of.
_________________
1960 Ragtop w/Semaphores "Inga"

thomasjm · Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 2:26 pm Post subject:

lol yes I agree it was poorly done ,like I said its my frankenstien its a 1963 body on a 1974 pan , I think the steering wheel came from the 74 I will take pics tonight after I get off work and post tomorrow,thank you again
_________________
63 ragtop.
71 ghia.
1970 deluxe bus
previously owned 66 beetle.
previously owned 58 big window

arizonabuckeye · Posted: Sat May 30, 2015 4:33 pm Post subject:

thomasjm · Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 9:41 am Post subject:

question should I use the original ignition from the 63 or just use the 74 ignition I cant see using 2 ignitions to start it up
_________________
63 ragtop.
71 ghia.
1970 deluxe bus
previously owned 66 beetle.
previously owned 58 big window

thomasjm · Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 12:22 pm Post subject:

_________________
63 ragtop.
71 ghia.
1970 deluxe bus
previously owned 66 beetle.
previously owned 58 big window

thomasjm · Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 12:23 pm Post subject:

here is the steering column in the 63

_________________
63 ragtop.
71 ghia.
1970 deluxe bus
previously owned 66 beetle.
previously owned 58 big window

arizonabuckeye · Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 1:04 pm Post subject:

Def. not a VW column. Doesn't look like an aftermarket unit either. What does the other side of the column look like? What about the steering wheel?

One thing you need to do for sure is take tons and tons of pictures. One question I have is where is your speedo? On a 63' it should be right above your column... I think on all beetles it should be right above your column.

Personal opinion? I think you should run with it. When you get this running and looking great it will be a freaking awesome story. You could even do some corny stuff like painting "frakenbug" or something on the dash. AND no need to worry about getting correct year parts, just grab whatever works and go!

The key to this project is going to be documenting the whole thing. You want to be able to look back and see what parts are where so you don't have to try and figure it out from memory.

thomasjm · Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 1:14 pm Post subject:

_________________
63 ragtop.
71 ghia.
1970 deluxe bus
previously owned 66 beetle.
previously owned 58 big window

thomasjm · Posted: Sun May 31, 2015 1:22 pm Post subject:

lol too funny,the speedo is right above the steering column,i have totally inspected the body and it a true 63 down to the badge on the front of the hood (last year for the badge) and the vin plate under the hood , thanks for the good advice on documenting everything it will make for a good story at the next bug show I get to and im driving it lol I could take it to a shop and have it done ,but bugs are so fricken awesome im going to do it myself " one wire ,one nut , one bolt at a time " thanks again ,hopefully someone can tell me how to wire the steering column up Very Happy

_________________
63 ragtop.
71 ghia.
1970 deluxe bus
previously owned 66 beetle.
previously owned 58 big window


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