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ClassicCamper Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2002 Posts: 679
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Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 9:39 pm Post subject: Automatic Transmission: 1973 412 Wagon |
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i just acquired my first 412 and would like to gradually rebuild the drivetrain. (as funds permit) The transmissionn currently runs and shifts well, but there are no records to confirm mileage or service history. That said, there is an 'Auto Trans Master Repair Kit PIONEER-752802' on the bay. Cost is roughly $240 shipped.
1) Is that kit sufficient enough to give a reputable tranmission shop for them to do a long-lasting rebuild?
2) Are there any other transmission components that should be replaced as it will be out and disassembled? ( torque converter seal, clutches etc.)
3) Are torque converters rebuildable? If not, are there any compatible ones from less rare vehicles.
Here is pic of transmission kit:
Last edited by ClassicCamper on Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:34 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33883 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think TCs are rebuildable, but a complete process for rebuilding the auto trans yourself has been posted in the Type 3 forum, I believe. |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21475 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 6:34 am Post subject: |
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Yes.....TCs are rebuildable. ...just not at home. That said...a few have gotten better performance by using a bus TC for a higher stall point.
Look in the STF 411/412 forum. There are several complete rebuild threads. You need to be sure that you have the seal, o-ring and gasket that goes between the transfer case and final drive and you need to be sure you have the seal for the governor.
Also....and I definitely applaud what you are doing. Most people have no idea how well these transmissions actually drive when they are in perfect shape and adjustemnt.......if I were you.....I would get new differential and pinion bearings and do it all. The critical, part will also be to check fit and wear of the pump drive shaft into the pump and yhe wear and pumping efficiecny of the pump. If you can find a, new pump that would be a bonus. Ray |
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ClassicCamper Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2002 Posts: 679
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Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 8:59 am Post subject: |
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Great. Many thanks for the feedback. So, if I have this right...
1) I should invest in the kit that I posted above.
2) Check out the complete rebuild threads and, if possible, get new differential and pinion bearings to be safe.
3) See if I can hunt down a new pump; in the mean time check the fit and wear of the pump drive shaft/efficiency.
Hopefully, I captured all of it. Make sense? |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21475 Location: Oklahoma City
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ClassicCamper Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2002 Posts: 679
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Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:32 am Post subject: |
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Looking forward to this project. Hopefully, I'll be able to drive it through August on short trips as I collect the parts. The PO said the car runs beautifully. Can't wait until she arrives. |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21475 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:40 am Post subject: |
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ClassicCamper wrote: |
Looking forward to this project. Hopefully, I'll be able to drive it through August on short trips as I collect the parts. The PO said the car runs beautifully. Can't wait until she arrives. |
I edited and added to my links above. You also need the brake bands. I believe those are in the master kit and may be in limited supply. Contact Bulkparts above and e-mail for availability. They have a master kit generally with all the discs and the bands.
Ray |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: February 06, 2002 Posts: 127
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Posted: Fri Jun 05, 2015 9:52 am Post subject: |
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Roc Auto has this kit for $150.00 |
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Multi69s Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 5360 Location: Lefty, CA
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ClassicCamper Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2002 Posts: 679
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Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 10:14 am Post subject: |
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It's rebuilt and ready to go. The gentleman who did it was surprised that it had such little wear on the inside. I think that was great to hear.
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21475 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:53 am Post subject: |
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Cool!
Ray |
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sharkskinman Lateral Lunatic
Joined: April 26, 2006 Posts: 4030 Location: Deep In My Own Psyche
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Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 1:52 pm Post subject: |
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There's a couple pics of an auto and important seals on my galley
T2 TQ in a T4/T3?? Have to change anything?
Would either final drive be very for aT3 auto with T4 engine _________________ 74 Mexi Swamp Thing. 70 square volksrod (Swamp Rat)..65 C10
Me of Course wrote: |
Extremity is relative to how far your willing to jump |
Ward Cleaver wrote: |
You ever try a pink golf ball, Wally? Why, the wind shear alone on a pink golf ball can take the head off a 90-pound midget at over 300 yards |
PS4 "NKOGNEATO" |
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Multi69s Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 5360 Location: Lefty, CA
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21475 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Thu Aug 06, 2015 4:05 pm Post subject: |
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Hey sharkskinman.....sorry im so hard to get a hold of. On the road a lot.
Type 4 car:
wagons and some sedans had 3.91:1 final drive (11 to 43 teeth)
From Aug 1973 and Jan 1973 (differnt gear box codes) the sedan only.....had 3.73:1 fonal drive (11 to 41 teeth)
The type 3 had a 3.66 final drive (9 to 33 teeth).
Actually having a type 3 final drive auto in the car is a NICE improvement......but you will need a torque converter from a bus with a higher stall point to really experience it well.....or a tuned out (better thqn stock) 1.7 or 1.8....with more torque off the line.
I have had a type 3 box in my first 411 and it makes better second to third acceleration. ...if you are tuned well. However...with the stock converter....it was a little baulky off the line....tall gearing. I never had the opportunity or knowledge to know at yhat point in time that a bus converter with a higher stall point would help.
But I can tell you for surd that it will....because having the same final drivd in the 004 four speed....and the ability to slip the clutch a little....makes it night and day better off the line.
Also.....with a higher stall point converter in either type 3 or 4 final drive gearing....would make that damn throttle kicker plunger....unneeded. Ray |
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ClassicCamper Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2002 Posts: 679
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Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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Where is the plug located on the transmission for the reverse lights? I just installed it in the car, but didn't really take note of the location. Thanks, -Ron |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21475 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 2:06 pm Post subject: |
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ClassicCamper wrote: |
Where is the plug located on the transmission for the reverse lights? I just installed it in the car, but didn't really take note of the location. Thanks, -Ron |
Its built into the gear shifter switches. under the bezel on the floor on the shifter. Ray |
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ClassicCamper Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2002 Posts: 679
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Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:10 pm Post subject: |
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My bad, I meant the solenoid for the kick down. Where is the plug for that located on the trans?? |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21475 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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ClassicCamper wrote: |
My bad, I meant the solenoid for the kick down. Where is the plug for that located on the trans?? |
The connector is on top of the trans gear case....just above the pan gasket joint.....on the left side..........just rearward of the dipstick tube and just before the joint between the automatic section and the differential section. Its a single male connector. Ray |
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Multi69s Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006 Posts: 5360 Location: Lefty, CA
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21475 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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Nice picture! Ray |
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