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tdnp
Samba Member
Joined: September 14, 2014
Posts: 11
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 Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 8:56 am Post subject: HELP-- Blows fuse when right turn signal 75 Super |
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OK, this is a pain.  and let me say that I hate electrical problems and I am not very good at troubleshooting electrical issues.
75 Super
All was OK, then we replaced the bushing in the steering column (not sure this was the case but it was after this it began) I have tested all the pins at the bottom of the column and none ring to ground. now when we turn on the right turn signal it blows the fuse.
Some of the things that I have looked at and find weird.
The emergency flasher work perfectly.
When I test the two green wires from the load side of the fuse both get continuity to ground.
When I test the center plug on the lights they too get continuity to ground.
The flashers try to work when left is selected but blink fast. or stay on.
I have taken all the other circuit off the #12 fuse and tested still blows the fuse.
Any advice on how to trouble shoot and find the problem is appreciated. |
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brianlewis60
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Joined: April 08, 2015
Posts: 50
Location: California
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 9:15 am Post subject: |
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| I would check the "movable" wiring. Sounds like you could have moved a wire possibly in the turn signal switch. Continuity to ground on any hot wire is why you are blowing fuses. Sounds like you have narrowed it down to RT indicator. Tracking down a short is never fun, it will take time and you will have to check every point in the RT signal wire to find a small nick in a wire rubbing. |
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tdnp
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Joined: September 14, 2014
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| By movable wire I assume that you are talking about the wiring that runs down the column to from the turn signal switch the chassis plug....do you have a print on how they should be? |
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Volks Wagen
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Joined: February 13, 2013
Posts: 2926
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 1:18 pm Post subject: |
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Wiring diagrams are here
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/info/wiringt1.php
search for your year
_________________
1973 1303 with AB-motor - sporadic
reconstruction as time permits, 1986 ex-Bundeswehr Doka - on the road again.
I'm definitely, probably, the worlds greatest lover.
Aithníonn ciaróg ciaróg eile. |
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tdnp
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Joined: September 14, 2014
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Sun Jun 07, 2015 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks Volks Wagen, I will try to figure it out. It looks like it may be a short in the emergency flasher switch, not sure how to troubleshoot it yet, but that would explain why I have continuity to ground thru both the green wires from the fuse. |
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tdnp
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Joined: September 14, 2014
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:42 am Post subject: |
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I found this thread and it is helping....http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=479687&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
but now I'm not sure how to interpret my results.
on the post Ashman40 is quoted the information below:
Mr "ashman40"; you posted on another post a trouble shooting process that I ran into early this morning and performed. I was wondering if you could kindly interpret my results.
Here is the original post with the test: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=438879
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ashman40 wrote:
Remove your flasher relay and set it aside. Run the following tests on the female socket the relay was connected to:
With the ignition OFF and the E-Flasher OFF, check that the #31 connection (brown wire) is properly grounded. The #49 (white) input wire DOES NOT have any power. The #49a connection should read ground as these go to the four corner bulbs and ground after the bulb filaments.
Turn the E-Flasher switch to ON and test the #49 terminal for 12v+. Remove the #8 fuse and make sure the power goes away. Replace the fuse and turn OFF the E-flasher switch.
Turn the ignition switch to ON and check that the #49 terminal has 12v+. Also check that the #49a terminal has 12v+ (coming from the speedo indicator lamp). Remove the #12 fuse and confirm the power goes away on both the #49 and #49a terminals. Replace the fuse and turn the ignition switch OFF.
With a small jumper wire, connect the #49 and #49a terminals together. This bypasses the flasher relay and will provide direct power to the corner bulbs (no flashing). With the ignition switch ON try both the left and right turn signal positions. The outside lights should come ON, but not flash since the flasher relay has been removed. If you have trouble with this, try removing the turn signal indicator bulb from the speedo and re-run the test.
With the jumper wire still in place, turn the E-Flasher switch ON and check that the four corner lights come ON. Do this with the ignition ON and OFF.
Replace all fuses, remove the jumper wire and replace the flasher relay (assuming it is the correct one). |
I have tested thru the jumper of the 49 and 49a terminals. When I do I have power to the turn signal indicator on the dash but nothing to the corners. (none of them) |
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ashman40
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Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15987
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 9:11 am Post subject: |
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| tdnp wrote: |
| I have tested thru the jumper of the 49 and 49a terminals. When I do I have power to the turn signal indicator on the dash but nothing to the corners. (none of them) |
It might be easier to disconnect the speedo turn indicator, it complicates troubleshooting. Reconnect when all else is working as a final test.
If you have the jumper installed in place of the flasher relay this means you should have 12v+ on the 49a wire. This should mean there is power all the way to the turn signal switch and the 49a terminal of the E-Flasher switch. This means you should be able to switch the turn signal to either left of right and that power should pass to the black/white (left) or black/green (right) wires and power the lights on that side of the car.
If you have the jumper installed and the ignition ON there should be power to the turn signals when you move the turn signal lever. If not, you need to trace the wires.
I read you initial post (must have missed it when initially posted in June) and your problem sounds like a short in the turn signal switch when you signal right turn (in the steering column housing). This is not unusual.
To avoid wasting fuses, I would test the following:
Remove the jumper from the flasher relay and leave the relay out.
Using a multimeter, find the black/green wire at the bottom of the steering column housing. This is the right turn signal wire at the output of the turn signal switch. If you were to apply 12v+ to this wire you should see the right turn signal lights turn ON. Test this wire for resistance to ground. You should see a path to ground (through the corner bulbs), but the resistance should be more than 2ohms. If the resistance is less than 1.5ohms it will blow the 8A fuse.
Move the turn signal to right turn and check the resistance again. The resistance should not change. If the resistance drops, you have a short in the turn signal switch.
Move the turn signal switch to center and now test the black/green/white wire for resistance to ground. This is the #49a wire coming from the flasher relay. This is the input wire to the turn signal switch. With the switch centered, this wire should be OPEN (no power, no ground -- normally it might have power from the flasher relay but you have removed the jumper and relay). When you move the turn signal to right turn this wire is connected to the black/green output wire and should read the same resistance as you read on the black/green wire. If you get less than 1.5ohms on this wire at any time the 8A fuse will blow. Test the switch in the left turn position and see if the resistance is different/same.
My guess would be you find near zero resistance when you move the switch to right turn and some higher resistance in the left turn position. If this low resistance is not on the black/green output wire when the switch is centered, then the short is internal to the switch.
If your turn signal switch is grounding, don't dispair. You may be able to insulate the switch so it does not ground.
You will need to remove the steering wheel and look at the turn signal switch and wires.
The most common cause of grounding is pinching a wire to ground. Look for this.
Pull the turn signal switch loose of the steering column and re-run the tests. If lifting the switch out of the column housing stops the switch from grounding that is good. You can use electrical tape at the contact points to insulate the switch from the housing. You may also need to insulate the four mounting screws so the switch does not ground through them. Try wrapping the screws in black tape.
If loosening the switch does not change the short problem then the grounding is INTERNAL to the switch. This is much more difficult. You can look into the innards of the switch and see if a piece of metal has slipped into the contacts. You could also try spraying the switch with contact cleaner to wash it out. You should also spray the switch with silicone lube before reinstalling to keep it free moving.
Post the results of your test.
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road  }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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tdnp
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| Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 10:19 am Post subject: |
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ashman40.....Thanks so much for your knowledge and wiliness to help. it is valued.
I should add that these readings are with the indicator in the circuit.
Here is what I show:
.41 m ohms at the base of the turn switch @ the Blk\Grn wire
.31 m ohms at the bas of the turn switch @ the Blk\White\Green wire
Readings do not change with the position of the switch.
It appears that the turn signal switch is suppose to ground thru the column. There is a copper "terminal" on one of the screw holes.
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ashman40
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Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15987
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2015 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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| tdnp wrote: |
I should add that these readings are with the indicator in the circuit.
Here is what I show:
.41 m ohms at the base of the turn switch @ the Blk\Grn wire
.31 m ohms at the bas of the turn switch @ the Blk\White\Green wire
Readings do not change with the position of the switch. |
What does the "m" stand for? milli? So you measured 0.00041ohms and 0.00031ohms?? And were you measuring between the wires and ground?
Did you take these readings with the wires disconnected from the turn signal switch? If you took the measurements with the wires connected you won't know which way the current is flowing and the measurements are meaning less.
Disconnect the turn signal switch and test the resistance between the black/green/white (input) wire and either the black/green (right output) or the black/white (left output) wire. This is on the turn signal switch contacts. You should have infinite resistance when the switch is not in the relevant turn position. When it is in the proper left/right position there should be near zero resistance between the black/green/white wire and the relevant output wire.
left turn:
black/green/white --> black/green = inifinite
black/green/white --> black/white = zero ohms
right turn:
black/green/white --> black/green = zero ohms
black/green/white --> black/white = inifinite
centered:
black/green/white --> black/green = inifinite
black/green/white --> black/white = inifinite
While the wires are separated, test the resistance on the black/green and black/white connector (not the turn signal switch side). These wires lead to the turn signals. If the resistance to ground on either of these wires is less than 1.5ohms they will blow the fuse.
| tdnp wrote: |
It appears that the turn signal switch is suppose to ground thru the column. There is a copper "terminal" on one of the screw holes.
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As a second test, check the resistance between the three wires of the turn signal and that ground tab on the screw hole. Try this test in all the positions of the switch. This will tell you if the switch is grounding at any point. The turn signal is a simple switch with one input wire and two outputs. If working properly it does not ground to anything.
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AshMan40
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'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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tdnp
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Joined: September 14, 2014
Posts: 11
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 5:18 pm Post subject: Fixed......finally |
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Ashman40, thanks again for all the help I was able to locate the problem today. The green-black wire at the terminal end in the switch was grounding out against the switch. I was able to bend it out of the way and apply electrical tape to ensure that it does not happen again.
Your help was fantastic and without your knowledge and wiliness to share Im not sure I would have found it. |
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ashman40
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Joined: February 16, 2007
Posts: 15987
Location: North Florida, USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 20, 2015 10:16 am Post subject: |
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Great to hear you got it working correctly! 
_________________
AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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