Syncro transmission rebuild every 10-20k miles

[FrankenSubySyncro]

Oil delivery is the week point. The big hole at the top is where the MS bearing / 4th gear is. This area is not bathed in oil, it only gets splashed then flung off again. Look at the height above the bottom of the fill hole on the right side. The bottom of the fill hole is the top of the oil level when full.

Didn't you say the fourth gear needle bearing cage melted? This area is believed to be the hottest part of the trans.

Here is the solution, the plate with the two allen bolts in the top left directs oil directly on the MS bearing / 4th gear. The black plate is the SA splash plate.

Here is the AA bearing retainer plate. I have never heard of an aluminum ring between 4th gear and MS bearing.

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Syncronize it!
1987 Franken Syncro (converted 2WD auto)
2004 2.5 SOHC Subaru
F & R lockers, decoupler, SS, 6.17 R&P
Trans Cooler
EMPI race prepped 930 CVs and axles
Bilstein coilover front, rear ProComp MX-6066R shocks, 14" hypercoil springs
30x9.5 15" BFG Muds
Custom skid plates
Nose job (custom front bumper) http://www.flickr.com/photos/subyvanagon/sets/72157624970330925/

[Sodo]

Interesting stuff thanks very much for the pics! I have seen them before but sometimes really difficult to find them again.

Had a great talk with Weddle. Weddle is a transmission part supplier. The guy said there's no possible way that VWspec oil is sufficient for a double the design horsepower. He said he'd use normal oil for normal conditions and for that case specialty oil is a waste of money. But for double horsepower applications high pressure oil will save you money.

He said he can't vouch for the oiling plates, no way to know, but VW designed them and he thinks they know what they are doing.

======== edit =======

He also said there was a time a few years back shops were returning FAG pinion bearings they felt had **too much** preload because theres nothing you can do (but return it).

But if the new bearing came from FAG with **too little** preload a good shop might grind it a little to get the proper preload (rather than return it). He though it was very unlikely my bearing was used, probably was "fitted" by a competent shop who knows how to do this.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[Waldi]

Here the alu ring and my bearing retainer:

The alu ring protects the oil going back and forward on steep climpings or down. In my opinion not nessasary. It is so high that the oil never goes all forward or back. The gearbox can be driven long time even without oil level.
A 2wd gearbox dont has the ring and its not forbidden to drive steep uphill or downhill. Oil support with plates without this ring is much better for the bearing.

I think the AA bearing retainer is not very good. First you need a special distance plates behind the G-Gear wheel (or you need to mashine grind the G-housing), second it looks not very stabile.

For the Alu gearboxes i have it also not very clear.
They did both. From my 7 main housings i have here, are 3 light and 4 more heavy. I think the light ones are alu and the heavy ones are alu/magnesium. The alu ones sure gives more heat to outside, but the alumg are stronger for deforming. Maybe i am wrong.

For the oil - if you look to the price of my shown oil example, there is no question if it is wasted money.


Edit: my retaining plate is 10mm

A distance peace into the original whole and a 12mm screw.

Edit: sorry, i mean oil support without the alu ring is better

[MsTaboo]

[syncrodoka]

GW doesn't have locking AL cases any longer and the last time I called Weddle they said that if GW was out so were they.
I need a locking AL case also.

[MsTaboo]

[insyncro]

Those cases are long gone.
Not a big deal was made of this when they came up for sale, but it may be a very long time before you see these around again.
Preserve what you have as it may be all that is available to work with.

I grabbed a few and wish I snapped up all that I was offered.
Huge mistake on my part.

[syncrodoka]

Those cases were available for a while before it was announced through the message boards and way before GW started selling them.
I grabbed a few before the buying frenzy went on but another syncro landed in my lap so another case will need to be sourced eventually.

Now back to the OP's unfortunate tranny issues.

[Sodo]

[Syncro Jael]

[insyncro]

Trusted sellers who test driveline parts before removing them are hard to find

YES, you get what you pay for.

At least the ads for parts currently available pretty much say "crap shoot" in the description.

[?Waldo?]

There have certainly been times when I paid for something and didn't get what I paid for. Much more accurately... You don't get what you don't pay for.

[davevickery]

I don't see anything dramatically different driving a van with a stock motor and driving with a subie 2.5. Some people may drive 10 mph faster with the subie, but most people probably cruise on the highway about the same 70-75mph. You can drive a stock van at 75 mph all day long year after year.

As for accellerating, there is probably some more stress, but 115 ft lbs torque to 160 ft lbs torque isn't that different, and the RPM range where that is delivered is basically the same. There are a lot of 230 hpSVX conversions out there too, you would think you would see double or triple the failures with those if the extra 50 ft lbs here caused the problem.

Sodo's self described driving style isn't that different from others with synco 2.5s with the same tires. Most people run them in 3rd up mountain passes and in Colorado they are much longer and steeper. People with SVXs don't even report issues running up there at 60 mph. Only thing I see from his narrative is slightly over reving for a few minutes here and there and what looks like an overloaded van, but we don't know if that is 100% or 10% of the time.

If you have a worn out transaxle and get a budget rebuild, whatever was wrong with it, is probably still wrong with it. Or maybe they didn't set clearances right, or reused parts they should have replaced. Rancho had to send my case out to have something machined when I got mine rebuilt. Cost $400 more, but I imagine a second rebuild would have followed if they left it the way it was. I don't think 9K miles is enough time to explain the moderate difference in driving and stress compared to all the other people with 2.5 and 3.3 syncros with transaxles that last.

I am still not clear what it is about Redline or maybe all synthetics that people say they are not appropriate. They test oils for various properties, I would think you could point to whatever it is that is not sufficient and compare it to the rating of another oil. Anyone have anything bad to say about AMSOIL 75-90 EP GL5 Full Synthetic.

It seems counter intuitive that Redline oil could cause a transmission to need rebuilding after 9,000 miles. The bearing cage melting points to overheating right, but do the other parts look burned too? There is more than one cause of overheating right. Still learning here.

Oh, and should we be asking for a detailed write up of what they found when we send in a transaxle, as a list of what parts were replaced? I have one right now to be rebuilt and another that seems fine for now with an older rebuild on it.

[Sodo]

Well certainly someone gets what you paid for.

I think these transaxles are so close to the edge that too much HP on the 'wrong' tranny, while hot, maybe wrong oil, and it's game over. Damage done. Surfaces are flaked, metal in the oil, and nobody's checking oil every few thousand miles.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[Farfrumwork]

Decoupler - get one!

I have a Syncro-Services unit (from Germany). Just a touch more $ than domestic offerings, but well worth it from the information I've seen between the various vendors/designs.

It has worked perfectly for me so far.

I bought the assembled version (there is a DIY for less cost, but I didn't want to 'learn' on a piece like that)


good luck man!!


These posts always freak me out a bit. I drive in Mnts almost exclusively and have a somewhat heavy right foot, and a EJ25... luckily the altitude and inclines force me into 3rd gear frequently (3rd @ ~4000rpm = ~55mph). I don't have HUGE tires (215/70/16) and I use good tranny oil (Swepco), and I have SA oil plates in the tranny (wish I had cooling provisions!)

My transmission was rebuilt by Rancho maybe 10Kmi ago (it didn't have any serious issues prior to the rebuild, but it did have wear on components which were replaced)
_________________
sold -> '85 Wolfsburg Syncro / 'Built' DOHC EJ25 (a great machine!)
'07 Legacy spec.B, road tuned stgII
'17 4x4 Sprinter, stone grey, SMB pop-top, on 33"s

"Blood stains, speed kills - Fast cars, cheap thrills - Rich girls, fine wine - I've lost my sense, I've lost control, I've lost my mind"

[insyncro]

Most with H6 conversions planned ahead and build an entire driveline to match and drive respectfully as they have tens of thousands invested.

Many 2.5 owners picked that motor because they were on a tight budget, didn't address the trans, brakes or suspension at the time of conversion...and drive the vehicle much harder with the new found power.
Hence, broken and worn out parts prevail.

I know of a few H6 powered Vanagons coming up on 100,000 mile marks without transmission issues.
Yes some nearing that mark have rebuilt once already...but they learned a valuable lesson the first time.

The engine of choice is not the problem, the drivers right foot is and the fact that the left isn't used to brake much is the other.

Most of my H6 friends talk with me about driving style, not broken parts

[Sodo]

I can remember in the old WBX era saying, "I just need the power sometimes,,,, the rest of the time, I'll still drive it like a VW."

Then you get the Subaru, and it has more power, but not a HUGE amount more. Can't be all that bad, right? Wrong.

I did not consider the EJ25 a 'budget" conversion. An SVX was offerred, I think for about $2,000 more, but I though tripling the power thru my trans would be foolish. Back then NOBODY was discussing all these mods. How long has Vanagon trans cooling been discussed, one year? I never even heard about it before this thread started.

My transaxle rebuilder was not a budget shop either.

There seems to be a lot of 20/20 hindsight being bandied about.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[insyncro]

Almost doubling stock power/torque is HUGE when you are a transmission

As far as "budget", most pop for the conversion and have to do other upgrades in time...that makes this choice of conversion the root of the issues as much as driving style.

Many are finding this out now...a few years down the road and a few upgrades too short.

Other have just driven the driveline into the ground with pilot errors while offroading.

[Sodo]

So, can anyone explain "meaningful differences" between the various decoupler kits?

I kinda thought they were all the same kit just different prices.
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'90 Westy EJ25, 2Peloquins, 3knobs, pressure-oiled GT mainshaft, filtered, cooled gearbox
'87 Tintop w 47k 53k, '12 SmallCar EJ25, cooled filtered gearbox
....KTMs, GasGas, SPOT mtb

[Zeitgeist 13]

Bushings vs needle bearings