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ClassicCamper Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2002 Posts: 679
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Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 8:33 pm Post subject: 412 Engine and Transmission Renew/Rebuild with pics |
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Is this the proper place to remove the torque converter to flexplate bolts?
Any help would be appreciated.
Last edited by ClassicCamper on Thu Jul 09, 2015 8:27 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:44 am Post subject: |
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Yes!
Ray |
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ClassicCamper Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2002 Posts: 679
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 2:04 pm Post subject: |
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I can't believe that the TC bolts have to be removed through the little hole on TOP of the engine. The autostick bugs (and 95% sure automatic buses) all have access from the bottom.
Any tips for finding and lining up the holes when complete?
Thus far, the well-written literature states:
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Installation is the reverse of removal |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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Actually I thought there was some very limited access from the bottom of the bell housing to get a wrench in....but its been so long.
I usually used a long extension under the 3/4 runners with the ratchet back by the distributor to loosen these.
Yes...memory coming back a little. Stick the socket in to contact the bsck of the flexplate. Turn engine until bolt head hits socket and locks. Back the socket up and plug it on to the bllt head snd remove bolt.
Before you remove the bolt....I thought there was a narrow window at the bottkm of the bellhousing where you could view the edge of the ring gear on the TC. When a bolt is in the port hole above.....make a mark on the ring gear teeth and housing down below with white paint.....and do this for each bolt.
When reinstalling....bolt the engine up...turn it until a flex plate hole is centered in the upper port...then turn the TC and ring gear around until one of the marks is aligned down below and the lug on the TC will be right behind the flex plate hole in the port. Finish alignment with a thin phillips screwdriver.....then insert the bolt.
A shallow 1/4" drive socket with round magnet inside helps. Ray |
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ClassicCamper Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2002 Posts: 679
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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Ray, your advice was spot on,thank you. Allowed me to accomplish this tonight:
Check out the A/C Compressor:
I don't like the little hole drilled into the AAR intake port on the plenum. That small port delivers vacuum to the throttle positioner/dashpot thingy. Any suggestions as to where I could tee the dashpot hose off to another vacuum line?
Last edited by ClassicCamper on Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ClassicCamper Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2002 Posts: 679
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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Does anyone know where I can get these intake runner boots?? The runner boots for the 1.8, 2.0 buses are available. However, the 1973 1.7 liter 412 or Porsche 914 boots are apparently different. I need to replace these:
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Lars S Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2007 Posts: 780 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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ClassicCamper wrote: |
Does anyone know where I can get these intake runner boots?? The runner boots for the 1.8, 2.0 buses are available. However, the 1973 1.7 liter 412 or Porsche 914 boots are apparently different. I need to replace these:
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I think the 1.7 boots are hard to find...I have read that many use the 1.8/2.0 ones and clamp them with hose clamps (or strong zip ties) at each end...a total of 8 clamps. Clamping is no bad idea even if you use the 1.7 hoses since it eliminates one vaccuum leak.
/Lars S _________________ Porsche 914 -72, Bahia Red daily driver
VW411 2-d -70, White, sold
VW412 4-d, -73, Gold Metallic, daily driver
Suzuki T500, -69, Candy Gold, sold
Suzuki K50, -77, Black, daily driver
BMW R69S -69, White, sold
Husqvarna 118cc, -47, Black, Sold |
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ClassicCamper Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2002 Posts: 679
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Posted: Thu Jun 25, 2015 10:12 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Lars. I'm trying to avoid putting clamps on those intake runners. But if I must, I will. Hopefully, I'll find some. |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Fri Jun 26, 2015 4:15 am Post subject: |
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ClassicCamper wrote: |
Thanks Lars. I'm trying to avoid putting clamps on those intake runners. But if I must, I will. Hopefully, I'll find some. |
Always clamp the intake runners. They Always leak.
You can buy fuel filler hose at flaps that can be cut to fit or go to a hose shop. I have not used stock boots in 30 years. Its a common leak area that leaks only while driving from intake vibration...and is damn hard to catch when standing still with engine running. Do yourself a favor and and upgrade and clamp. Ray |
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ClassicCamper Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2002 Posts: 679
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:13 am Post subject: UGH!! |
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Well, my hydraulic jack blew a seal (2 ton mind you) leaving me with a chest full of fluid and sent my engine sliding to the floor.
The transmission was on a separate jack, which I planned to move down in tandem with the motor. That never happened. Long story short, the casualties were my T-shirt, 1 Powerbilt jack and my bottom engine studs:
I'm guessing double nutting it and slowly backing out. Also, does anyone have a set of these? I have on WTB, but nothing yet. Any help would be appreciated. -Ron |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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Just measure the studs and check with metric and multistandard. Also .....the small hole in the AAR connection.... ....I know exactly why they did that...probably because they were missing and could not find the small, three way boot that feeds the decel valve. Interesting method. Ray |
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ClassicCamper Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2002 Posts: 679
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Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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Interesting. Anyone have leads on where to get that rubber boot? |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 7:03 am Post subject: |
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ClassicCamper wrote: |
Interesting. Anyone have leads on where to get that rubber boot? |
I have a couple that are perfect but hard as a rock. I am hoping not far off to make a mold and cast them.
Now....10 years ago....you could still order it by part # at the dealer. Not only did they have quite a surplus.....the part was problematic. They have quite a surplus because they were replacing them all the time back in the day.
The rubber three-way AAR elbow is one of the most common and critical vacuum leaks because the fit to the angle between the AAR valve nipple and the plenum nipple was not exactly right and the rubber boot gets hotm...and it shrinks and cracks....yet in many cases tends to look perfect while its leaking like hell.
I was no longer willing to use these boots because I drove so much and could not afford to have the boot fail 500 miles from home.
So.....I tried many mods ....about two of which worked well. For the AAR usage.....a slice of 12mm hose about 2" long between the AAR and plenum solves that problem.....but the small bore line for the deceleration valve required something different. I was not willing to drill a hole in the plenum close by in the plenum and install a 3mm nipple.
So at one point in time....I will have to find the part if I still have it......I drilled a 3mm hole in the flange next to the tube on the AAR and screwed in a nipple which was simple a piece of brake line threaded on the outside. That worked well....but hwen that AAR finally crapped out...and it was before I started rebuilding them......I had to do something else.
I took a 3/4" long piece of 12mm steel tube and drilled and tapped a hole for a brake line nipple.....and put a 3/4" length of hose on each end and clamped it between the AAR and plenum. Barely enough room for clamps.....had to grind on them a little.....and its a PITA to install but worked well. Ray |
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ClassicCamper Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2002 Posts: 679
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Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 9:33 am Post subject: |
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Interesting about the rubber boot, Ray. Wow, as I read more and more of your posts, you are a highway warrior in these cars. You have some great info. I'm going to attempt your suggestion to fix the boot situation with the AAR. That said, where do I plug in that thin vacuum line for the throttle positioner? I don't like where it is, tapped into the AAR port on the plenum.
Can I T it off/share it with another line? Thanks. |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 10:00 am Post subject: |
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ClassicCamper wrote: |
Interesting about the rubber boot, Ray. Wow, as I read more and more of your posts, you are a highway warrior in these cars. You have some great info. I'm going to attempt your suggestion to fix the boot situation with the AAR. That said, where do I plug in that thin vacuum line for the throttle positioner? I don't like where it is, tapped into the AAR port on the plenum.
Can I T it off/share it with another line? Thanks. |
So looking at thr vacuum diagram and remembering.....if you have an automatic....you have the throttle dashpot and it ppugs into the AAR boot. The deceleration valve for the automatic is electric and triggered frok a transmission switch.....and the valve connects between the intake boot and the plenum right near the MPS inlet on the plenum.
The interesting thing I have found....is that even though the books say the automatic transmission cars used an electric decel valve....back in the day....more than a few cars with factory auromatics....all 1971 and 1972 .....had the manual vacuum operated decel valve. My first 411 four door has an automatic and had the manual decel valve. I got it with 55,000 miles on it so I doubt it was retrofitedd unless it was done by the dealer.
The decel valve connected with the vacuum line coming from the AAR boot with a small T fitting. Ray |
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ClassicCamper Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2002 Posts: 679
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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Ok. After tons of grease, seized and rusted bolts... Here is where I'm at:
However, I got the wrong Bosch plugs again! I bought genuine type 4 wires, so why cant I unscrew the top off the plug?? If the 'cap' on top of plug cant be unscrewed, It wont work on the 412, right?
Then, I found two gashes or splits on the thermostat; it is pretty much fully extended. Any leads where a guy on a budget could try?
Here is my next item to work on. It looks like a flying squirrel.
Any and all feedback appreciated. Thanks |
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Lars S Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2007 Posts: 780 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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Good progress!
Put the plug in a wise, with a plier you should get the plug top nut off.
You could also go for plug wires that fits plugs with the plug nut left on...but you already hat new wires...
The thermostate bellows are sold as repaired ones by this company
http://www.germansupply.com/xcart/customer/home.ph..._in_t4.tpl
..but not the specific type4 temp range (+85 to 90C).
Lars S _________________ Porsche 914 -72, Bahia Red daily driver
VW411 2-d -70, White, sold
VW412 4-d, -73, Gold Metallic, daily driver
Suzuki T500, -69, Candy Gold, sold
Suzuki K50, -77, Black, daily driver
BMW R69S -69, White, sold
Husqvarna 118cc, -47, Black, Sold |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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Post a picture of the plug tip. Some of the super plus have solid, non-removable tipsm vood plugs. The best plug I have ever found for the 411/412/914 is the Bosch W7DTC or the NGK BP6ET triples. Ray |
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ClassicCamper Samba Member
Joined: December 17, 2002 Posts: 679
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Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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So I have been de-gunking, sanding and painting all of the engine components. Amazing how much sheet metal surrounds the engine itself. Now that most of that has been completed, I'm starting to fit her up:
Some things I noticed along the way:
- Needs new oil dipstick 'accordian (fan body to crankcase); ordered at Bus Depot
- Needs new rubber elbow that cools alternator. ; bought at BD as well
So now, I need to wait for the parts.
In the meantime, I'll be pulling the old A/C system out and measuring the lines for installing a stealth DPD System (stealth meaning it looks like a DPD, but is runs an efficient screw type compressor, has eco-friendly refrigerant and a larger condensor unit.). If I'm not mistaken, there is/are shim(s) that go between fan shroud and case to allow a little more room for a/c belt..
I did have a side question: does anyone have any leads as to where I can order some of the original-looking fabric vacuum lines? The larger size in red. Thanks again, -Ron |
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Lars S Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2007 Posts: 780 Location: Sweden
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Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:47 pm Post subject: |
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Nice work Ron!
Generally Porsche 914 1.7 engine parts are easier to locate than 411 1.7 parts since there is a bigger hausse about the 914 but the engine is at least 90% the same.
I have not tested this hose kit myself.
Lars S
http://www.autoatlanta.com/Porsche-Vacuum-Line-Kit-1-7-Parts-PN-BAAVACKIT1.html
_________________ Porsche 914 -72, Bahia Red daily driver
VW411 2-d -70, White, sold
VW412 4-d, -73, Gold Metallic, daily driver
Suzuki T500, -69, Candy Gold, sold
Suzuki K50, -77, Black, daily driver
BMW R69S -69, White, sold
Husqvarna 118cc, -47, Black, Sold |
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