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59 vw guy Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2002 Posts: 969 Location: Oklahoma
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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 7:54 am Post subject: |
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When i had my engine built i was worried about the life and heat even though i was installing good shroud and deep sump and ext fan cooled cooler fixing to hook up cooler this week i had 2110 built and went with that instead of 2180 cause the thinner cylinders spooked me and kept comp at 8.5 and let me tell you it will hit 7000 as fast as a honda but i need to change tranny mine is 437 way to much i think 388 would be better anybody have that tranny in there bug? |
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Uroplatus Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2004 Posts: 20 Location: High Point, NC
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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 9:29 am Post subject: |
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So for drivability and dependability are you guys saying the 1914 is better for everyday use than the 1835? _________________ '66 Vert, with a long ways to go!
'66 Vert |
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John Boelte Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2003 Posts: 12 Location: Indianapolis, IN
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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Either buy a new engine case or have your case inspected, line bored, and bored for the cylinders you choose (90.5 mm have the thickest cylinder walls). Get either a Scat or CB Performance 69 mm (stock) counter weighted crank (8 doweled) and stock flywheel; get high strength Scat or CB connecting rods (don't need to be H or I beam); get Mahle 90.5 piston and cylinder kit (you may want to get Total Seal rings at extra cost) and teflon buttons; get an Engle 110 cam (timing gear and lifters too!); CB Performance 041 cylinder heads (spend as much money as you can here); dual 40 carburetors; either 009 distributor or better electronic ignition system; if you want heat, use Kymco's big bore heater boxes and extractor/muffler.
There are more little things you'll need, but this will get you where you want to be at reasonable cost and be pretty reliable. The manufacturers listed have good reputations and are industry leaders. For carburetors and ignition systems, do yourself a favor and visit http://www.aircooled.net . John has a lot of good information in his tech tips section. The folks at http://www.shoptalkforums.com have a few guys with a great deal of experience and good solid advice for building engines (and other repairs). _________________ '71 Super Beetle, named "Otto" |
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NorCalLowLife209 Mr. Saran Wrap
Joined: January 23, 2004 Posts: 932 Location: Stockton, CA NOR * CAL
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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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If you want to build an engine why do some people say its not a good idea to build of a stock case.I forgot what is was called.But my freind says if i want to start biulding off my engine i need a AS41 case. Why is that? _________________ 1967 VW type 1 (sold)
1963 VW type 1 (sold)
2011 VW GTI |
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John Boelte Samba Member
Joined: August 05, 2003 Posts: 12 Location: Indianapolis, IN
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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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The AS41 case has the dual oil pressure relief case, which is better, but I forget why. Most engine cases are 30+ years old and are worn. If you have a dual port case and want to buid it up (saving yourself about $300), have the case inspected for cracks and have the crank (and cam)journals line bored (if you don't, you could wear your bearings out quickly).
It is possible to build off of an old case, but considering all of the costs involved with building a performance engine, $300 isn't very much for what you get. _________________ '71 Super Beetle, named "Otto" |
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Bugorsh Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2004 Posts: 1358 Location: SoCal
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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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A 90.5mm cylinder (for 1776) and a 92mm cylinder (for 1835) have the same size dia at the bottom of the cylinder where it connects/inserts into the case so the 90.5's have thicker walls making them stronger. The 94mm cylinder (for 1915) has a larger dia so it is again stronger than the 92's. My first motor build was a 1776 (about 90hp) with dual 34 ict webers and it was much more powerful than the stock 1600 was. My current motor I built over 20 yrs ago is a 1904cc (about 120hp) with dual 44idf webers and it smokes rice quite nicely. I am now building a 2332 with 48 idf's and it should make between 180 and 200 hp. _________________ In pursuit of superior handling!
SuperBeetlesOnly.com
VeeDub Parts Unlimited
Topline Parts |
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russell Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2003 Posts: 601 Location: Satans Roses, Killafornia
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Posted: Sun Jun 06, 2004 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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Uroplatus wrote: |
So for drivability and dependability are you guys saying the 1914 is better for everyday use than the 1835? |
of course its not, the 1835 has smaller cylinders compared to a 1914, but they are both also not too good for a daily driver, if you get a bigger one than that like a 2027, that will be better for a daily driver b/c it only has 90.5's but more stroke _________________ Click to view image
"Low_Slow: never trust a mexican engine"
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DMNCLNR: i gave myself a boner |
RIP HBB (1984-2009) |
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So Cal 55 Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2004 Posts: 2 Location: United Kingdom.
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:13 am Post subject: |
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Hey guys...
I have a 1776 that i built a year back..
Its pretty wild built an it delivers 120hp...
I can desimate the norm with my traction and acceleration i can pitch a honda civic vtec to 100mph..
You can get the 1776 reliable and fast but yeah my next step is 1914 and wilder cam.... Much more fun than a stock 1600 any day...
_________________ Power is everything. |
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dub_crazee Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2004 Posts: 314 Location: London, England
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:30 am Post subject: |
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are we talking about bored out cylinder heads or different ones? because i heard with bored ot ones they are very liable to crack because the walles get ridiculously thin for 94mm? is this correct? _________________ 69 Beetle
71 Bay
71 911 |
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So Cal 55 Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2004 Posts: 2 Location: United Kingdom.
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 3:33 am Post subject: |
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when you got 94mm your best off with aftermarket heads like eliminators coz yeah the heads start to get thin and the valves are too small restricting flow etc etc.... _________________ Power is everything. |
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OLDveedubs Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2003 Posts: 602
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 6:42 am Post subject: |
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russell wrote: |
Uroplatus wrote: |
So for drivability and dependability are you guys saying the 1914 is better for everyday use than the 1835? |
of course its not, the 1835 has smaller cylinders compared to a 1914, but they are both also not too good for a daily driver, if you get a bigger one than that like a 2027, that will be better for a daily driver b/c it only has 90.5's but more stroke |
I'm glad to see you've tried out all the possibilities in your bug before posting information that could be misleading. _________________ -Ryan
Restoration Updates
www.my59bug.com
"Perfection through inspection." |
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Uroplatus Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2004 Posts: 20 Location: High Point, NC
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 9:39 am Post subject: |
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But i have found by reading engine related material that you actually stroke the engine and have simular, and sometimes large displacment and keep a safe thickness of cylindar wall. for example you could stroke the engine 78mm and bore only 90mm and end up with a 1985cc motor...Or even stroke it 82mm and bore it 90.5 and have a 2110cc.
But why don't you see more folks doing this instead of boring the cylindar?
With stroking you end up with more bottom end, and paying for more parts, but why not go that route if its gonna run a bit cooler than boring the heck out of it. I would think stroking would be safer in the long run, and possibly making a more reliable engine...am i wrong? _________________ '66 Vert, with a long ways to go!
'66 Vert |
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Poor Realist Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2003 Posts: 305 Location: Stockholm SWE
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 10:31 am Post subject: |
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remember, when you upgrade the engine, you also need to upgrade the induction/exhaust. Say good bye to heater boxes... |
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Cap'n Tea Bag Samba Member
Joined: June 07, 2004 Posts: 17
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Posted: Fri Jun 18, 2004 11:26 am Post subject: |
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a company has been trying to make a 4 valve head for a vw motor for a while |
Does anyone know what company this might be? |
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gophercat Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2004 Posts: 191 Location: Austin, Texas
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:02 am Post subject: |
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Poor Realist wrote: |
remember, when you upgrade the engine, you also need to upgrade the induction/exhaust. Say good bye to heater boxes... |
Wrong..... There are heater boxes with larger internal tubes -1 1/2" instead of 1 1/3"- so you don't have to loose the heater boxes. CIP1 sells them. Socalautoparts does as well. I believe CB performance has them as well. A 1914 engine is easily built to be a daily driver. The only way a 1914 wouldn't be a good daily driver is if you put in a crank that would put the RPM band up into 8000+RPM. I have a 1914 that was built 5 years ago and it is still putting out great power. If you want to talk about DD and going above 2000cc then the best bet would be to buy a Type IV engine anc drop that into the car. Hell if you went wild on it, you could take a type IV up to 2.8L and be putting 250+HP and 280 ft/lb of torque. That would smoke most cars you see in a bug.
The AS41 engine case was a better option not only for dual relief, but the AS21 was more prone to wear than the AS41 due to the compunds used to make it. Now going with an aluminum supercase is what most builders are doing. Last even longer than an AS41.
If you want to stay under 2000cc and have a daily driver with good power then have a 1914 cc engine with a mild cam and a new case. Buy good quality parts and it will last.
A smaller engine can beat a bigger engine for several reasons... or lose to a bigger engine for several reasons. Carb selection makes ome difference. If you get huge carbs on an engine you tend to lose acceleration a little. A smaller set of carbs would be better for low end setups. Cam would also have the same effect. Some cams are built for acceleration- others for top speed. When you go to build an engine you have to consider what speed you want to get to and how quickly you want to get there. The other major factor involved is compression ratio when looking at power. The higher the CR the more power you get. Then heads are another factor- Flow is more of a factor than size. If you have a smooth flowing set of heads it can be far better than larger heads.
The best bet for you in choosing what to do for an engine is figure out what you want the most. How much you will spend and buy the option just below what you are willing to spend because it will usually end up costing you the amount you think. If you want great power- excellent reliability and minimal worries about dependability and can spend a lot- Type IV 2.4L.
If money is a factor but you want the most bang for your buck a 1914cc with a mild setup is gonna be the best option. You get a good foundation and you are able to get more power than the 1776 would produce without having to run in higher RPM bandwidths. The cost difference is very litte.
1776 is a very tried and true engine. Many years a 1914 was not a great option- but now it is far better than the 1776 if properly built. _________________ 1972 super
1974 Standard |
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56_oval Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2004 Posts: 20 Location: Dallas, TX
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Posted: Sun Jun 20, 2004 9:11 pm Post subject: |
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i just wanted to throw my 2 cents in real quick. i have a 56 with a pro built 1835. yes, the walls are thinner, but with the right cooling, you'll be fine (i run an electric cooler inside the car mounted to the pan with a hole cut for cooling). it's right there behind the driver seat. i know not everyone can run something like this, but there are ways around it.
now that's not really what i had to say. i work in an aircooled shop here in texas, and too many times have i seen guys build these bad ass engines and forget the most important thing, the transaxle. i mean, what good is a big motor without a way to tranfer the power to the wheels.
you have to build a strong tranny if you build a high torque engine. you hear people say all the time, 'i wont put my foot in it', but they do. i mean, what do ya want the extra power if you're not gonna use it?
either way, anyone who builds a big motor, build a tranny first, it'll save your ass time and money in the long run. either way, good luck.
_________________ WHO YOU CALLING PSYCHO!?!?! |
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stiltwalker39 Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2008 Posts: 16 Location: Buford Ga.
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Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:03 am Post subject: |
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As for the 1914. I got some bad news this week I was hoping to build a 1914 for my 1970 bug and I was told the case had large case savers and I could not go to the 1914 and it would be best to go with a 1776. All I want the car for is to run around town on the weekends. They were both going to have the stock heads and crank with a 110 cam. It will have a set of 40 Kadrons on it. What will my HP be with the 1776 and what would I have had with the 1914. I feel that I will not have a fast car now. Am I wrong? What can I do to pick up some more HP with out allot of added cost?
Carl |
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HERC Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2007 Posts: 1003 Location: Menifee
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Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:11 am Post subject: |
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56_oval wrote: |
build a tranny first, it'll save your ass time and money in the long run. either way, good luck.
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Exactly, 56 oval is right on. rpm is rpm no matter the motor...One of the biggest reasons all of these 1600 cc cars can can move is the trans...
A nice 5 or 6 speed bug trans would be the key... _________________ Herc |
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metric autohaus Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2005 Posts: 195 Location: Millersville, MD
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Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:21 am Post subject: |
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There are alot of people telling you that you should go bigger, and I won't argue that fact. But the best way to get your power, is to spend your money on good heads, a nice cam, ratio rockers. Power is made with the head choice. You can build a powerhouse of a 1776, with good parts that will kill a cheaply built 1914. Save your money, and buy good proven parts (not chinese crap), then assemble your beast. _________________ High Quality VW & Porsche Restoration
http://www.metricautohaus.com |
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stiltwalker39 Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2008 Posts: 16 Location: Buford Ga.
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Posted: Thu Jan 01, 2009 11:32 am Post subject: |
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I will talk with my machine shop and see what he may have for me. Cost is the problem at this point. I may just go with what I have for now. I could always change the heads out at a later time. How about the HP? Maybe 90HP? |
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