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Adding oil to A/C compressor - '90 Westy
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RBEmerson
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 6:58 pm    Post subject: Adding oil to A/C compressor - '90 Westy Reply with quote

Our Westy lost its Red Tek charge when an o-ring in the condenser failed. That's fixed and the vacuum has held for 3+ days. The next step is adding oil to the a/c system. The first time Red Tek went into the a/c, the compressor had just been replaced. I got the Westy back with oil in the lines and a vacuum in the system. The shop didn't want to mess with Red Tek. This time around, it's up to me to add the oil. What's the best way to do this???

Bentley calls for, IIRC, 9 oz of oil. OK, I've got ester oil. Where, on the compressor, does it go? There's a fitting that's called a "drain" in Bentley. Assuming that's where the oil goes in, too, what happens to the vacuum when I open the "drain". If I have to pull a vacuum again (I can do that), what happens with the oil I just added?
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 7:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You MUST know what oil is in your system.

New compressor? Designed for r12 (shipped with mineral,oil) or r134a (shipped with PAG oil)?

Different oils that most often don't play well together.

The compressor has a side plug and you can purchase / manufacture a dip stick.
Odds are you will need to unbolt the compressor and rotate it to put the fill plug up.

Pulling a vacuum before checking the oil level was kind of an backwards way of going about this. Odds are high you will need to loosen / remove the hoses to rotate the compressor.

Dave
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RBEmerson
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Red Tek isn't choosy about what oil it wants to work with. Given that a) one of the connections failed (lots of dye around the connection), and b) I pulled a vacuum several times, the system is probably down to trivial amounts of oil.

The system is, of course, designed for R-12 and Red Tek is an R-12 replacement (among other things). But what matters here is Red Tek doesn't care about the oil spread around the system.

The "drain" (since when are drains relatively high enough to keep stuff from running out???) is indeed at the 3 o'clock position when facing the pulley/clutch assy. Short of completely dismounting the compressor, I'm going to have to make do with what I find.

I assume that opening the compressor lets air in to fill the vacuum?
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you open the system , surely you will have to evac it again.
No short cuts here.

You say that the system has Ester oil in it.
I sure hope the compressor did when you introduced that oil--it should have had Mineral oil in originally--
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RBEmerson
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No worries about pulling the vacuum again. Since the plug is subject to the vacuum, too, I'll bleed the vacuum off through the gauge set. Otherwise even turning the plug might have its problems...

As best I can find, mineral oil and ester or POE oil get along just fine.
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2015 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good Luck---
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AtlasShrugged
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You may want to consider replacing the receiver dryer if the system has been open to atmosphere.

If you do..measure the amount of oil in the old RD..pour it into a container with volume lines on it ..how many ounces or CCs come out?

Add the same amount oil new oil in the new RD plus two ounces.

Remove the compressor and drain it..again capturing the oil that comes out..you will need to turn the compressor by fitting a socket on the clutch nut and slowly turn the internals to get the oil out.

Measure the amount of oil that came out and replenish with new oil..plus an ounce or better, two more.

Once you pull a vacuum..prior to starting the recharge..turn the compressor nut slowly about ten/twenty revolutions..to get the oil moving around the system. This avoids "slugging" the compressor with your new oil.

I use Nylog on all the A/C "O" rings..works very well and no more leaky fittings. There are two types on Nylog..Red and Blue..not sure which one you need with HC12a..you can buy Nylog online. See the link:

http://www.refrigtech.com/Product/Manuals/NylogManual.pdf
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RBEmerson
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the info! I wish I'd known about Nylog. That might well have kept the initial leak from happening.

Good points about emptying the compressor and drier. The moisture ring in the drier is still a very "happy" green; I'll leave it in the system.

I sure wish pulling a vacuum also pulled all of the oil. Ah well...

Thanks for the reminder about not slugging the compressor. It was on my list of things to try to remember. But then there are days when looking up my name, to remember it, can happen, too. [/wink & LOL]
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RBEmerson
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the oil issue sorted out. Now I can't get the [/expletives deleted] compressor to kick in. The compressor was working to spec until the Red Tek charge vented past a damaged o-ring.

I'm assuming the low and high pressure switches are preventing the clutch from engaging. If I read Bentley correctly, the low switch works between 29 and 43 PSI. The high pressure switch works between 175 and 210 PSI. Unless I'm really mistaken, the gauges should show the system pressure at some balance between the low and high working pressures (greater than 43 PSI, less than 175 PSI). How's the compressor supposed to kick in if both switches are out of range???
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AtlasShrugged
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jump the low pressure switch if you cannot get the compressor to kick in with the partial charge of refrigerant. It happens sometimes. You have to be patient too..it may take 15 seconds or more for the compressor to run once the low pressure switch is jumped or working too..don't know why. The low pressure switch turns the compressor off if the refrigerant charge is less than the spec PSI.

The high pressure switch should not be a problem.


Last edited by AtlasShrugged on Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:32 pm; edited 1 time in total
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RBEmerson wrote:
I have the oil issue sorted out. Now I can't get the [/expletives deleted] compressor to kick in. The compressor was working to spec until the Red Tek charge vented past a damaged o-ring.

I'm assuming the low and high pressure switches are preventing the clutch from engaging. If I read Bentley correctly, the low switch works between 29 and 43 PSI. The high pressure switch works between 175 and 210 PSI. Unless I'm really mistaken, the gauges should show the system pressure at some balance between the low and high working pressures (greater than 43 PSI, less than 175 PSI). How's the compressor supposed to kick in if both switches are out of range???


What have you done?
Pull a vacuum, hook up a can of refrigerant to the gauge set,
Open the valve and holding the can upside down to dispense liquid, allowed the system while not running to suck in all the refrigerant it wants to take?

Once the static charge is in, there is usually enough pressure to trip the low pressure switch.

Dave
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And..be sure your wire to the compressor clutch is connected too.
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RBEmerson
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 1:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is only the second time I've charged the system, the first time being over a year ago. I polished off the remains of the last can used on the first charging. That's probably about 1/8 to 1/4 of a can or somewhere between 2 and 4 ounces of R12 (18 oz R12 = 6 oz of Red Tek). Bottom line: probably the Vanagon's A/C wiring thinks the A/C plumbing is empty or close to it. Time to go change that...
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Put in more, don't go jumping safety devices and fry a compressor.

If you only put in 1/8 can, the system should still be quite thristy without running unless you lost your vacuum?

Dave
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

djkeev is right! the system will not start with a trivial amount of refrigerant (I missed the 1/8 can thing)..with a vacuum it should have sucked in about a full can of gas..enough to normally trip the low pressure switch and get going.

Be sure and don't overcharge the A/C system with HC12a when you get more gas..easy to do as the amounts required are less than R12 or 134a..measuring the amount of refrigerant used with a digital scale is helpful..don't rely on the oz numbers on the can.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 2:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good news / bad news. The good news: At idle I get ~30-40 PSI and ~ 150-160 PSI. Ambient temperature is about 80-82F. AFAIK, this is in spec for Red Tek. The bad news: Cooling amounts to about a 10F drop (80F to 70F). At the moment there's no sun on the vehicle and it rained within the last hour. Humidity's up, temps down slightly, little solar heating.

I ran the engine at about 1500-2000 for about 2 minutes (per Red Tek instructions). No change in cooling, no change in pressure, sorta.

The low (and high) pressure has a periodic swing even though the compressor remains on 100%. Maybe it's a thermostat? Anyway, the swing is about 10 PSI, averaging at 35 PSI (Red Tek says to go for 32-38 PSI - I'd say I'm right there).

Much of what was scrambling things was getting the darn high and low valves right. I've got that behind me: red closed, blue open to fill and hold pressure when checking running pressure.

I assume the 10 PSI fluctuation is OK. The lack of cooling - not so much. Thoughts?
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Read the redtek thread.

You are at the point where you aren't somworried about pressures but performance.

Dribble a LITTLE bit of redtek in, check temps, add a tiny bit more until you have reached maximum cool level.

Strong fan blowing on radiator running about 1500 rpm or so.

Fan is important!!!!!!!
Don't go convincing yourself that it isn't needed!

Dave
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

With both the red and blue valves closed..a box fan blowing on the front radiator/condenser..and the engine at 1500/2000 rpm..what do you have for pressures?

djkeev is right about the performance issue..sounds like your high side pressure will drop when you rev the engine to 2000 ..low on gas.
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RBEmerson
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Indeed the high pressure is dropping. I'll try topping things off tomorrow.

Meanwhile...
GO USA! The US Women's World Cup team has beaten Germany to make it to the finals on Sunday. GO USA!
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2015 8:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What kind of thermometer are you using and where are measuring temps?

I was having similar performance problems until I covered the engine & closed
the hatch when charging...see if that gives you better temps at the vents.
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