Subaru Vs VW

[RDAY]

Hey guys I plan on Buying a new engine in the future soon I want as much performance without sacrificing reliability and also staying in a decent budget. What's the best way to go
Thanks

[kamesama980]

subaru gives you a fair bit of HP over stock beetle with stock power level 200k miles reliability of the engine. Of course there's a few tradeoffs in initial cost to install it and a weight penalty.

define reliable: do you mean total lifespan of the engine or few unforseen failures even if the engine only lasts 10k miles?

What is your budget?

What's your skill level/experience?

What's your goal for power? (obviously the same hp from a subaru means less due to the additional weight BUT it's capable of more stable hp)
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-Russell
"You don't get to blame me for how I fix what you break"
1970 VW Beetle
1994 Pontiac Firebird
2001 BMW R1200C
2003 Subaru Baja

[jpaull]

With a ton of work and adapting, you can have a car that is reliable. But if we all wanted reliable we would drive Toyota Corollas or WRX's to work.

I take VW Power anyday. Cause my heart is with Aircooled VW.

A guy with a 911 got smoked by my VW powered bug, and at the next stoplight he asked, "Hey, do you have a Porsche engine in that thing?". I said no, its all VW, and suggested he should put a VW in his Porsche so he can go faster.

Jeff
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[email protected] MPH 1/4 Mile & 8.1 @ 83.7MPH in 1/8 Mile with Mild Type 1 VW Mag Case 2234cc commuter engine in stock weight bug w/only .491 total lift(CB2292 Cam), 42x37 heads, 48idf's, Street tires, Belt on, Mufflers, Pump gas, video of the run here: https://youtu.be/M3SPqMOKAOg

Transmission by MCMScott:
Rhino case, Klinkenberg 4.12, Superdiff, 002 mainshaft with 091 first idler. Weddle 1.48 Third & 1.14 Fourth.

[stan_tichomirov]

I guess, which Subaru engine is the question? I would argue that neither of the EJs is capable of delivering 200K reliably without having to do engine work -- NA engines will require head gasket work, while the boosted version isn't designed to last that long. Find STis with 150K on stock engine -- you won't, they either poped a piston, needed head work, had turbo-related issues, etc.

Then, there is the tuning aspect of it.

Wha't easier for you to fix? Subaru parts are 't THAT cheap.

IMO, one advantage of using Subaru stuff is it's LEGO-like, like VW aircooled stuff. IMO, they got many ideas from VAG.

Stan
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Aircooled.net
Jansen Enterprise
My 1835cc build
My budget 2276 build

[jpaull]

[stan_tichomirov]

Yep, and I personally know 2 friends that were affected -- one was cracked pistons, the other one crank bearings, both turbo EJ255s. Everyone I know with an NA Subaru has replaced head gaskets. I had an '07 Forester XT for 5 years, it's basically an STi in a mumu. Put down 270awhp, which is conservative.

Stan
_________________
Aircooled.net
Jansen Enterprise
My 1835cc build
My budget 2276 build

[bugnut68]

[Ghia Nut]

Hello, I own a karmann ghia, a beetle, and a wrx as well.
I want to first ask, will this be a daily driver and your only vehicle, or will this be for fun? First off I think the swap is totally worth it, Id kill to drive one one day. If its a daily driver, I can see the allure of the subaru engine swap. Parts are much more available, and you can find subarus in junk yards with ej22s all day long. Try finding a vw in a youpullit yard, they are usually scrap by the time they get there. You can also find parts at a dealer.

I considered a subaru swap in my ghia, then my 59 beetle. I decided against it for several reasons. First of all is cutting, I just really didnt want to do that, and you are going to have to cut it due to cooling. This will affect resale value, granted Id never sell them unless I had too. 2ndly they were my parents car passed on down to me. I wanted to do it uninvasively on the cars but that just wasnt reallity. Now a bus you can do with no cutting by having a radiator mounted under the bus. But beetles and ghias will need cutting. Unless some one has cooked a rear mount radiator that works, then you will have to do a front mount.

There are extensive threads concerning the conversion. Check out shoptalkforums under conversion perversions area. Many knowlageble people there, Joel has just about written a book on swaps with awesome youtube videos, and his thread is awesome and full of info. Roach ghia aka OTX58s green ej22 na-t car was sicker than hell, another great thread and worth a read atleast 3 times.

It really comes down to what you want. Yes Im going to say that a subaru engine will put out more stock hp than a high dollar vw engine and more reliably with less maintenance, I know some one here might try to bash me on that, but facts are facts, they dont require valve adjustments points adjustments, carb tweaking, choke tweaking, or a degree in chemical engineering to figure out if it has the correct zddp ammount . Now it wont be period correct, but it is cool as hell. Ej22 sohc can be wedged in without cutting rear sheet metal. Quad cam stuff you are going to have to cut. A removeable rear apron is all most a must as well. But ultimate sleeper status. The other question is if you are prepared to make up the other upgrades to contain the beast.

Ej22s do not have have as bad a rap on head gasket failure, they are a reliable and economical engine with over 2x the hp of the stock vw engine. Now na ej255s, yes those things HG will crap out if you look at it wrong so avoid those engines. These engines are sensitive in the HG area, so if you rebuild an engine, make sure the surfaces are true. My wrx engine has had its issues with only 70k on the block. I throw a single miss fire code every once in a while, the valve cover seal leaks, and boy does she drink oil. Great and fun car though, as reliable as a camary, not quite, but 1000x more fun. Its one of the reasons I purchased a wrx, the engine, the awd, and they are cool in an ugly way. In so far as wrx engine reliability, in 300k, you are going to replace head gaskets, no way around it, you are going to have to do a timing belt (did it in the garage with youtube, with correct tools its easy as pie). Ringlands are known to fail, this is due to crank case ventilation being absolutely crap causing oil to go into the intake and cause the car to run lean, buy $500 air oil seperator, helps out a bunch. They do have their issues, no its not perfect, and yes a turbo porsche engine is better but I havent won the lotto yet. Every engine has a weak spot, you just have to learn to deal with their special needs.

Your budget will determine what you can do. Id say a full suby swap with you doing most if not all the work will be a little less than a really nice aircooled vw engine. The suby engine will change the character of the car though, that may not be a bad thing though.

Just some ideas.
Again I think both bad ass vw engines are cool as well as suby swaps, you cant really go wrong though its a vw
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'59 typ1 rajay turbo
'72 Ghia rajay 1641 dual 36DRLAs, 1 3/8" SS merged header and fat boy
78" GL Vert with ej22t swap
This will likely change tomorrow to something else.

[GTV]

Apples and oranges. You can't compare the two, IMO.
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EMPI Power Rules!

[dsrtfox]

Subaru swaps are getting more and more popular and they're not going away, it's not a fad. A well built na Subaru will put out very close to 200 hp and sale past 100 K miles. The junk yards are loaded with good cores for cheep and quality parts are available brand new directly from Subaru. Seems like a win win to me.

[Dan Ruddock]

I like the BRZ other than that I have no use for them.

Dan

[modok]

I think it is fascinating that subaru copied the vw type-1 dimensions, and even with far superior technology they are still up against similar limitations.
They can't fit 2.5 liters reliably in a 1600cc size box either LOL

They are a great deal tho. New shortblock is under 2 grand. I don't recommend rebuilding one. If it needs rebuilding you are better off to get another shortblock. If you want to take it apart just to look at the pieces and re-assemble that's fine.

[skills@eurocarsplus]

[dsrtfox]

Buddy of mine just dropped by with his Subby powered 914. WRX NA 2.0 JDM with ported heads, mild cams and tuned exhaust. The performance is breath taking. He really needs 911 brakes. Radiator in front was the hardest part and running the coolant lines but not that big of a deal. Oh, did I mention it's really fast and 30 mpg...

[gprudenciop]

rear cooling is also possible and has been tested. three 18hr drives to socal in 2 months.
also megasquirt is the easyest to implement. 2110,2276,2276 turbo and now 2.5 subaru with the same megasquirt.i am only interested in the look of the bug and dont care what is under the hood as long as i dont have to mess with it all the time.

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Never look down at anybody unless you are helping them up..
Loaning someone your strength instead of reminding them of their weakness = kindness..

[Anthonyisawsome]

The engine I used for my swap has 170,000 miles on it. No doubt it would last 200,00 easy. Except how I drive it . I also have under 1,000 dollars into my whole swap , I got my donor car for free though. For $3,000 anyone who has some mechanical background can do a Subaru swap. Try building a vw with 130hp that will last 200,000 miles for under $3,000... Yes certain 2.5s have head gasket issues but the 2.2s are solid engines. That is what I used for my swap.

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I have learned so much, but yet I still don't know anything because knowing what you don't know is showing you how much you haven't learned.

1973 Subaru powered supabeetle
(o\ l /o) 1964 Baja bug roller

[dsrtfox]

Anthony, did you do a built thread ?

[Dr OnHolliday]

Buy a Sumbichu if you dont want an aircooled VW automobile!
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1965 Type 1 sunroof Baja / about 70k miles on self-rebuilt '74 1600 and counting / SP heads and aftermarket valve keepers / non-doghouse shroud with external cooler and filter / 1.5 qt extended sump / Weber 32/36 DFAV progressive carb / 009 dist with Pertronix / 1.25 ratio rockers and ball adjusters / 1.5" stainless steel J-pipes and carbon steel baja exhaust

[gprudenciop]

[skills@eurocarsplus]

I would like to point out I did a 2.2/2.5 hybrid 'frankenmotor' with lots of headwork and some cams. I used a new shortblock direct from Subaru....for 1,800 I couldn't go wrong.

after having about 4-5k into my 1904 I just didn't have it in me to do it all over again with the bus. I spent LOADS of time making my swap 100% reversible with little to no cutting.

I love the swap so much, I am thinking about removing my 1904 from my westy and going Subaru in that as well.

would I do this to a numbers matching 1 owner bus? no...(well it depends )
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