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jseaman Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2015 Posts: 3 Location: UK
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Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 2:03 pm Post subject: I need some steering advice for a project |
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Hi all, I've just finished building a sandrail with a fireblade engine in but I'm having a little trouble with the steering. I'm finding a lot of play before anything happens at the wheels.
I assumed that it was steering box so I bought a new one but it made no difference. I have also renewed the tie rod ends and that hasn't helped.
I find a lot of play as shown in these two pictures:
Using the normal adjuster made little difference:
So I figured it might be time to play with this end of things:
Sadly I'm a beetle noob and I'm not managing to find out the best way to set things up with a google so I'm hoping there are some brains on here that can help. Essentially it looks like the worm gear has way too much play in it so I'm questioning the box again although it appeared to work perfectly until loaded with the tie rods so it may be set up - what are your thoughts?? |
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Petfisheric Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2014 Posts: 121 Location: Knoxville, TN
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Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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adjustment of the steering box is made with the top cover on by turning the screw to tighten the roller to the worm gear. While I haven't seen or experienced it, I have read several post about the polyurethane couplers breaking with out warning and you shouldn't have any play at that point |
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jseaman Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2015 Posts: 3 Location: UK
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Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 4:24 am Post subject: |
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Yes the adjustment can only be done with the cover on obviously or you wouldn't do anything! I removed the cover to show how much play there is in the worm gear, this doesn't change with the cover on.
The poly coupler has no play, it is in the box |
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Letterman7 Samba Member
Joined: March 14, 2004 Posts: 3198 Location: Downingtown, PA
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Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2015 5:07 am Post subject: |
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First, the poly coupler needs to go. Get a true rubber OE unit. Second, the worm gear "cover" is a large nut that should be able to be screwed in and out, changing the force on the shaft itself. It takes the "in and out" play out of the equation. Turn the nut inwards, the tighter the steering gets. The adjustment screw on the top takes the play out of the 'left and right' adjustment. With that one you don't want to take out so much it's hard to turn the wheel - a little play is allowed. I think it's somewhere around 1/2" of turning the wheel before the front wheels start to move.
Make sure you pack that box full of grease before you button it back up. If all the adjustment procedures don't work, you need a new box. |
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jseaman Samba Member
Joined: July 01, 2015 Posts: 3 Location: UK
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Posted: Fri Jul 03, 2015 12:40 am Post subject: |
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When nipping up the large nut at the end of the shaft, do you turn the wheel at all to wind it in first normally?
As mentioned in the first post I can't take the play out with the normal adjuster. I have several inches of play on both the original box and my new one. Interestingly if I disconnect the tie rods, turning the shaft makes the output of the steering box turn instantly but as soon as it has a load it has several inches of play |
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Petfisheric Samba Member
Joined: November 27, 2014 Posts: 121 Location: Knoxville, TN
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Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 6:09 am Post subject: |
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So you think the worm gear has too much slop. don't take these questions wrong just trying to get more information to better help you. Can you detect any movement or is there any visual clue in the bearing or cup that support them?
Also what size front tire are you running. Keep in mind the box and tie roads were designed to manage a 5" wide tire so the wider the tire the more flex have in the system. You said you had the same problem with a new box, was it brand new or just new to you? |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2011 Posts: 1593 Location: Louisville, ky
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Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2015 7:12 am Post subject: Re: I need some steering advice for a project |
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There are ball bearings of both ends of the shaft circled in red. The now missing big allen bolt is what adjusts the play in those ball bearings. Without it there will be much slop.
As someone else mentioned, the lid needs to be on both to adjust the steering play and to support the pinion of the rack and pinion.
So with your steering box all in bits it is going to be way sloppy.
I would disconnect the steering shaft and tie rods as you put the steering box back together. Tighten the big allen bolt first so you can easily turn the worm gear, also known as a rack, without any binding but there should be no play. If this were not a new steering box I would suggest you pull that worm gear out and inspect the ball bearings on both ends. Now put the lid on, again without the steering or tie rods attached. You need to adjust it so the pinion on the steering arm has minimal play, and again, no binding. Now reattach the steering shaft and the tie rods.
I suspect you took the box apart because there was still play after you put the new box on. Have a friend move the steering wheel back and forth as you feel things in the steering. You should be able to find the slop. Any perceptable movement in the input shaft means the big allen bolt is not tight enough. You should be able to feel each part from steering shaft on and feel for any play between it and the next part. Eventually you will find the slop. And since you already replaced the steering box I would suspect the tie rod ends, but put that box back together 100% correct first before chasing any more slop.
On the very bottom of the picture I see the bolt holding the steering arm on. I also see that it is missing the locking tabs that ensure it never ever loosens. Also missing the locking tabs on the steering input shaft. Those bolts loosening would cause sudden catastrophic steering failure. Don't be so cheap that you skimp on safety items, they are only a couple of bucks and they could save your car, your life, innocent bystanders. |
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