BIG trouble - Front Bowden tube mount gone!

[Skulptorchaz]

I gots me a bummer....
I just got my buggy up and running and lovin it but, I have SERIOUS chatter starting in first gear. I posted another thread about it and it seems I was missing the bowden tube, from what you guys tell me. OK, no big deal, $9.00 and I'm rockin.
Opps, not so fast - it seems the clutch housing tube at the chassis is missing. My guess is it was removed when the pan was shortened by the P.O. So, I don't have anything to stick the front end of the bowden into. (The chassis was a bit cobbled up)
Have any of you experienced this?? I'm all ears guys. This seems like it could be a real drag. On the plus side, I'm thinking this is going to keep my front end down and maybe less traffic tickets but, I didn't have this engine built the way I did to pussyfoot away from the stop light. I was looking to go "mustang huntin"! LOL
Any ideas??? (PLEEEEEEEASE!)
Thanx.

[Q-Dog]

Remove the rear cover to access the shift rod and take a look at what you have. The clutch tube runs through there and out the back.
_________________
Brian

'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle

[Skulptorchaz]

Sorry QDog, I guess I should have been more definitive in my writing - it is gone. the cable is exposed under the inspection plate and all the way out the back.
(I'm bummin.)

[BL3Manx]

There are two ways to go. Install a clutch guide tube in the tunnel or install a hydraulic clutch.

I like the feel and simplicity of the clutch cable but I wouldn't even consider installing a new guide tube unless I had the body off. I'd probably take the opportunity to move the shifter back and ensure all the guide tubes and the fuel line were also secure and all the chassis welds were solid. Here's a thread, the picture shows where I cut open the tunnel

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=520044

The hydraulic clutch install would require less work and should work fine. There's a Saco master cylinder that can be mounted inside the tunnel but I'd recommend something easier to access like in the picture from the thread below.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=562815

I put one on my Manx way back in the mid-70s when Neal first came out with the hydraulic clutch. I just got some fairly thick 3" wide flat steel bar bent into an L. I bolted it to the chassis behind the Napoleons hat, next to the brake master. I cut a notch on the side of the L toward the top and put the master in the notch and attached it with two bolts. The master was an old British Girling. I welded a tab to the clutch pedal arm about halfway up. I shortened the pushrod so the tab pointed straigt up at rest. It was a real amateur job and I didn't have a clue what I was doing but it worked fine and lasted for several years until I changed out the chassis for a newer one and went back to a cable.

This is roughly what the master cylinder mount bracket I made looked like. Its a bad drawing but not as rough as the actual part was. If I made it today, I'd reinforce with gussets, etc. I notched it instead of cutting a hole for the master because I only had a hack saw and a drill

[Skulptorchaz]

Thanx BL3. Unless someone has some other trick, it will have to be hydraulic. I already have the pan powder coated so "chopping" isn't an option.
I just hate the idea of hydraulics as there is always one thing for sure, at some point, they will leak.
I know nothing about the hydraulic clutch on a VW (I do know hydraulics tho) and I have heard a couple less than positive things about them. But, they might be exceptions to the rule. (???)
I'm not looking forward to the expense either.
Thanx again BL3!

[Dale M.]

Is clutch cable tube totally missing or just broken loose from brackets and just slid forward?

Dale
_________________
“Fear The Government That Wants To Take Your Guns" - Thomas Jefferson.

"Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
"Joe Pody Sandrover" Buggy with 2180 for Autocross (Sold)
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All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...

[Skulptorchaz]

M.I.A.....at least from the inspection plate back - completely gone.

I was kicking around the idea of a plate with the proper sized tube welded thru it and bolted in the opening where the clutch cable comes out now. I would just have to figure out how long the tube would have to stick out past the plate. I guess I could adjust the Bowden tube that way to start with. Bad thing is, I would have to pull the body off and that isn't going to happen this summer. I'm having too much fun with it - even tho I don't have 1st gear.

Still thinkin...........

[BL3Manx]

From the title of this thread, I'm not sure you understand the real purpose of the clutch guide tube.

For the clutch cable to have consistent tension and the pedal to work reliably, the guide tube must be solidly anchored at its front end (just behind the pedal hook where the cable enters it), at the rear end where it exits the tunnel (just forward of the where its used to mount the bowden tube) and also in the center of the tunnel so it doesn't flex around when the pedal is depressed (and waste energy, make noise and crack welds)

The guide tube's purpose as a front anchor for the Bowden tube is just its secondary purpose. Its primary job is to enable the clutch cable to efficiently transmit force by its the movement relative to the guide tube over its entire length.

The hydraulic clutch kit isn't that expensive. Like I mentioned you'd need to make your own L bracket, the small plate in the kit is only good for the VW sedan

http://www.mooreparts.com/6166-CNC320B/

[Skulptorchaz]

So you think an open span of clutch cable - between where the tub was shortened and the back of the pan - will negatively effect the operation, even if I anchor a short tube where the clutch comes out of the pan? As opposed to running another tube up to the existing remains of the original clutch tube, attaching to it, leaving a proper amount out of the back of the tub and all the while welding/securing it to the tunnel? Hmmmmm.... I guess I don't get it.

My feeling was the clutch cable guide tube allowed for easy replacement of the cable, and "mounting", and the bowden tube, did a separate job, altho attached to the end of the tube, via the bow in it which had to be secured to the end of the tube on the front end and trans mount. Movement of the cable in the tunnel seemed irrelevant as long as both ends are secured to the tub. Yeah, there is a possible issue of "wear" where it rubs but other than that.....

Am I wrong here??
(Sorry if my writing is hard to understand. I'm no great literary figure. )

[hillmotorsports]

As a side note...
How does his situation differ from the clutch cable in a Tow'd?
_________________
Rosemarie and Paul Hill
Morrisburg, Ontario

(With way more projects than spare time!)

[BL3Manx]

Aircraft have control cables which run from the cockpit to the flight controls and they don't have guide tubes. What they do have though is pulleys.

The cables path through the VW tunnel isn't straight, either laterally or vertically. It also runs closely parallel to the throttle cable/tube and shift rod.

You could mount pulleys inside the tunnel to make the bends and not require a guide tube, but if the run isn't dead straight, a fixed dimension and completely separate from all other objects, its one or the other.

Tow'ds have short guide tubes attached to the rear torsion housing. Due to the lack of a "tunnel" on a Tow'd the cable could make a straight run from the pedal hook back to where the guide tube began.

[EVfun]

It sounds like you may have an autostick chassis.

I'm watching this thread with interest as I am looking into a hydraulic clutch in my Mini-T.
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[Dr OnHolliday]

A flexible cable guide that is fixed at front & back ala motorcycle cables will work too, altho not with stock vw cables
_________________
1965 Type 1 sunroof Baja / about 70k miles on self-rebuilt '74 1600 and counting / SP heads and aftermarket valve keepers / non-doghouse shroud with external cooler and filter / 1.5 qt extended sump / Weber 32/36 DFAV progressive carb / 009 dist with Pertronix / 1.25 ratio rockers and ball adjusters / 1.5" stainless steel J-pipes and carbon steel baja exhaust

[hillmotorsports]

Ya know, we are never too old to learn, and better before than after you screw up!

We still haven't got the toasted remains of our Tow'd home yet so am happy to see details like this in preparation for the major tear-down in our future.
_________________
Rosemarie and Paul Hill
Morrisburg, Ontario

(With way more projects than spare time!)

[Skulptorchaz]

I am going to try a plate bolted over the oval hole, where the cable comes out of the pan, with a 5/8" bolt threaded thru it and a hole machined long ways thru the bolt for the cable to run thru and the end cut down to fit in the bowden tube. Then, with a jam nut, I should be able to not only attach the bowden tube but adjust it as well.
That is a quick synopsis of what I have planned. If you would like more details, let me know. I will post about it when I get it done but it may not be right away. ("Barefoot shoemaker".)
BTW, I own a welding/fab shop so this is not hard to do for me.
Thanx for all the help and ideas folks!!

[woodoctr]

Sounds like that could work to me.... post some pic.s up on this thread once you are done.

[impaleale]

My cable guide is 2 parts and works great. I have the last 6 inches and its welded to the rear frame through the old hole and about 6 inches up front. Make sure you bell the the 2 ends inside to make it not chaffe up the cable. Good luck and practice your yoga before trying to weld the front. 2 hours of prep, 30 seconds of weld.