RWD winter debate?

[HankScorpio]

So I live in ct where there is a chance of snow and ice October to March. I'm tempted By a few rear wheel drive cars as a new daily driver. How bad an idea is a modern RWD in the winter? I Have almost no experience with RWD.

I accept that fwd is better and awd (or 4x4) is best but is a new RWD with traction and ABS really that bad?
I mean in the 80s and earlier the vast majority of cars were RWD without computers helping out. Were people crashing that much more?

I see a lot of people here who think you have to have awd but then get over confident and get in trouble in the snow.

I'd get a set of winter tires for whatever I own. My mini is awesome in the snow wearing its x-ice. Would a mx-5, frs/brz, 1 series, or mustang also be good with the right rubber?

[Letterman7]

I'm a believer it comes down to the driver. I've had RWD and 4WD all my life and really never had a problem. My '76 Chevelle ran through 12" of snow better than my current '06 Chevy without throwing it into 4WD. That said, I've driven pretty much everything in between and found that yes, FWD has a slight advantage, especially on hills. 4WD will almost always win on a level playing field, so it's going to come down to what you think you can handle. The only car out of your short list to avoid might be the Mustang.. several were out this past winter simply playing - hit the gas and sideways they went. You will want the widest rear tire, preferably studded in any RWD, so I'm not sure the BRZ could qualify.
Good luck in your search!

[HankScorpio]

I am looking at the 2015 ecoboost mustang. I'm hearing the redesigned its IRS should help a bit but but that may just be dealer trickery.
If I put this off until snow falls I dan always rent a v6 mustang and see what happens.
I'm looking at fwd and awd cars too just trying to figure out how to weigh options.

[andk5591]

In the old days when our cars had tires make from rocks - all you had was rear wheel drive and you got where you needed to go. Radials were a big improvement and dedicated snow tires are a HUGE benefit.

The thing is (and was mentioned) that you need to learn how to drive RWD in the snow. Its way different than FWD and in some situations maybe a little better.

Where you are is relatively flat and you really shouldnt have a probem, just take the time to learn how the car behaves and talk to some old timers. You may find a benefit of putting a bag or two of sand or cat litter in the trunk.

AND correction on the one post - you DON"T want a fat snow tire. Skinnier is much better. Do some research and you will see why.
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[Keith]

x2 on the skinny tires for snow. One of the reasons the old rear wheel drive cars were ok in snow, lots of weight and skinny tires. My '55 Plymouth Belvedere was like a damn tank in the snow with it's skinny tires.
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[busdaddy]

I can't say there's a whole lot of difference one way or the other as far as driving goes as long as you are aware which wheels are doing the driving and how the car balances. FWD does score better whan you end up parked on an icy spot and can't get rolling, the added advantage of steering off the shiny spot on top of the forward/backward does save getting out to push or shovel most times.

Big torque or performance doesn't help regardless of which wheels are driven when you are trying to crawl off a slippery spot, fun in the summer but a spin at the slightes touch of the pedal is no fun in the snow.
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[Brian]

I was out at Pismo beach to see huckfest. I saw all these trucks driving around, all these trucks getting stuck and everything in between. Then ripping through the dunes, low and behold a Buick sedan sitting atop competition hill.

Moral of the story; it depends. It depends on everything. Some cars are better off with fwd, some are better rwd. most will be better with 4wd.
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[Lost in Space]

My first thought is WHY ?

Why torture a nice new 'Stang or somthing nice with all the calcium chloride, salt, deicers and crap, when a $ 2000 front wheel drive beater would do better in the slop ?

I run a Dodge Grand Caravan with 4 Blizzaks that can go in amazing deep snow and ice......so deep its leaveing scrapes in the fresh from the undercarrige....up mountain passes too.

I used to drive Beetles and (GASP) ghias through the same, back in the day.......I cringe at thinking how it rotted a dozen collectable cars to rust and dust.

If you simply just CANT find a way to have more than one car......RWD in real snow and ice is possible, but not going to be a relaxing drive in black ice or deep snow.
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[jspbtown]

I commute from Western Mass to Worcester every day for work. And let me tell you last year we had some snow!

I had a Jaguar x-type and a Mercedes C280 in the past that were all wheel drive and were killer in the snow, even with the stock all season tires. When my kid got old enough to drive it was back to funner cars for me. 3 years ago I bought a Lexus SC430 which is rear wheel drive. Without snow tires it was terrifying. With a good set of snow tires on all 4 wheels it was a lot better. It had a "snow' program and a fantastic stability control program which made slippage almost non-existent. It did not bring it up to all wheel drive status but I think it was comparable with front wheel drive.

I just bought a BMW 6 series convertible and the plan is a full set of snow tires. BMW suggests that I drop from my staggered 19" rims down to matching 18" rims with skinnier tires in the rear.

For me..the 300+ days of no snow per year are more important than the few days where we have bad snow. Last year was exceptional, but not the norm. I would rather drop the top and feel the sun 300 times a year than worry about snow the other few days. Plus if its terrible out I can take my wife's Cayenne.

[kamesama980]

It's up to the driver first, tires second, and car design third. drivetrain only matters once you get those 3 out of the way.

with the modern driver aids, RWD is not a big issue in the snow for an inexperienced driver. However keep in mind they're all geared around the driver freezing up and NOT trying to counter the situation or have fun. They want the driver to panic and freeze up. I get pissed off at my new truck with all the gizmos in the snow because other than the first 3 months of car ownership, I've always had old RWDs with mediocre tires and know how to drive them.

That being said, inherent car design plays a big part: poor weight distribution (pickups), fat tires (sports cars), and sporty throttle response don't play well in the snow. Many FWDs have at least two of those working against them. Many RWDs do too. My Cressida is phenominal in the snow. My Firebird is pretty sketchy when the tires get cold much less snow. Both are RWD and old.

Anyone that says snow tires don't make a big difference hasn't driven on the right snow tires. (and yes there are different and different quality winter tires, ice tires, and snow tires just like there are different summer tires emphasizing traction, mileage, longevity, etc.)
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[my59]

We have had a selection of rwd and fwd cars and as said it depends a lot on the driver knowing the car. I have found ABS to be handy when actually driving but a real PITA when you are trying to rock a car to get unstuck.
The best car we have for serious snow is the 59 beetle. Skinny tires, weight over the drive wheels, and decent ground clearance. I have driven it up an unplowed driveway that from expirience has had all the rest stuck at the bottom untill a shovel arrives.
The rwd diesel benz was fun on the flats but no good on hills. The 190e 5 speed is ok with snows on it. The Volvo 240 wagon is a beast and has plenty of heat to boot. It's my go to in shit weather.
The 01 NB was ok but no ground clearance, and I have yet to try the new jetta out in the winter.
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[vdubyah73]

When front wheel drive breaks lose in snow it understeers, rear wheel drive over steers, oversteer is more fun! Nothin' like gettin' sideways to get your heart pumping. Used to go drifting in snow and pack ice on dirt roads in Puckerbrush NY. Did it after dark when you you could see headlights coming and reel in the fun before the oncoming car got close. Put skinny snows on all four corners of a 4 door American V8 RWD and watch it go through anything......sideways!

Bill
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[far rider]

I've lived in Vermont since 1969. Never had a problem with RWD. Didn't own a FWD car until 1987. As others have stated a lot is up to the driver. Just be cautious. Plus as soon as snow starts falling road crews are out cleaning and salting. The number of times you're really driving in unmanageable snow depths are few.
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[Letterman7]

I only mention a wide rear tire rather than a skinny is because I've had better luck with that. But that's just me. Skinny will cut through the snow and hit pavement sooner; wide will tend to sit on top.

That said, I had 50 series on that Chevelle I mentioned, and drove around stranded econobox FWD cars with no issues. Maybe I was just lucky that day. I was way younger and didn't know any better

[jspbtown]

Letterman7....I know what your talking about.

Back in my college days I had a 73 Corvette convertible while in college. Every weekend I drove 2+ hours from eastern Mass to western Mass to see my girlfriend. And that included the winters.

No snow tires. in fact pretty bald tire. And a corvette. Surprised I lived.

[e&m_ghia]

I learned to drive in the winter in NY, on a RWD Chevy... It was fine. But it had studded snow-tires, I think that would be considered cheating now-days.

Now we drive Subaru's (AWD) as our daily drivers, and they can go through anything that isn't too deep. If you take care & don't do anything stupid.

Practice is good, tires are critical. E's WRX started with manufacturer-installed summer tires, which were awful here in the winter - even new, with AWD. Replaced with good Michelins, and it's fine.

I travel & drive a lot of rental cars, often in bad-weather places. Rental RWDs with no weight in the back & lowest-bidder tires: Bad news. Don't even try to go up a hill on packed snow/ice, before the salt/sand trucks get out there. And they fishtail pretty bad, which can be scary.

Ummm... The actual critical thing though, is not starting... It's stopping. AWD doesn't help. Good tires will help, anti-lock brakes probably help. Otherwise anticipating the conditions, and prayers. First snow of season in upstate NY, what gets your attention is the number of 4WD trucks in the ditch. They can accelerate, but can they stop? How quick they forget...

[modok]

[raygreenwood]

I would wager to say.....those of you hung up on tire width for snow tires......are sorely out of date on your experience with them.

With modern European style, high speed snow tires....the width makes no appreciable difference......and the design, rubber compounds and tread patterns have absolutely no relation whatsoever to snow tires of yore.

I have run snow tires all of my driving life. Back in the 70s and 80s virtually all snow tires available in the US were heavy lug style, studdable mud grip style tires.....high side walls. ..absolutely lousey if you got them in stock or wide width.

I bought my second set of MODERN snow tires the winter before last.....and we have winter here in Iowa.

The two top tires on the market for winter driving are the Bridgestone Blizzack and the Continental Extreme winter. I have driven both extensively...and though the Bridgestone beat the Continentals by about 2-4 points out of 100....in all published tests.....the Continentals are MuCH better than the bridgestone.

Driving wIth either tire...front or rear wheel drive...is so good on ice and snow that its virtually similar to driving on dry pavement....I shit you not!

The reason for me why the Contis beat out bridgestone....is because they are designed with a special sidewall and sipe structure....that allows high speed driving on dry pavement with outstanding control and virtually no loss in mileage. They beat anything I have ever been on for high speed driving in rain.

I drove about 5,000 miles in this past long mixed winter...dry pavement......at average speeds of 75 mph on these tires....about 3,500 in mixed snow and ice.

The sipe system, assymettrical tread and special tread compounds that change hardness to match outside temp in cold weather ....and a super stiff sidewall to keep the tread contact patch flat while keeping air pressure slightly lower than a stock tire.....are part of what make these modern tires.....light years away different than basic snow tires of the 70s, 80s and most of the 90s.

You guys should really do some reasearch. I suggest the Tire rack.

I bought mine...with basic steel rims, mounted and balanced and delivered........for about $550 for four. The tires are about $85 each. Many people in New England that drive intra-state....wear these tires year round. Just dont take them off. There is no need . The dry pavement performance flat out beat the dry pavement performance of the stock touring tires that came on my 2012 Golf.

I will be outfitting my 412 with a set for year round use. Ray

[cdennisg]

I have lived in the northern US states my entire life. I have never lived in a place that did not require good winter tires. I have driven through long Northern Minnesota winters, long Montana winters, and long Northern Idaho winters. They are very much different, and require different tires.

In MN and MT, the winters are usually very cold, so the roads tend to either dry off with plowing, traffic, and road salt, (or through sublimation of ice/snow), or they stay snow covered year round. Here in Idaho, winters tend to get very soggy and sloppy. The same tire that works on broken hard pack in Pump Lick, MN, doesn't cut it as well here in Mud Bog, ID. When driving through ten inches of slush, you want a tall narrow snow tire. A wide tire will tend to float, no matter how much siping it has. That skinny tire will plow down through the slush, and its winter tread and soft rubber compound will pull you through. usually.

Research only works if you are applying it properly. The Pacific NorthWest has a tendency to throw curve balls at otherwise experienced drivers.

BTW, my everyday driver, winter and summer for over a decade, is a rear wheel drive 1987 Toyota long bed extra cab pickup. I have good snow tires that I buy second hand at VW shows/swaps (vanagon size) and I have only been stuck once to the point that I needed a tow strap. I have used my tire chains occasionally to reach a good hunting spot or to get into/out of a job site. A front wheel drive vehicle would never go where I have gone with my Toyota.
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[raygreenwood]

Again....do some research. Really!

Modern snow tires....have tread compounds that change hardness at a huge range of temps. They have been tested and work fantastic from cold to warm

They beat the hell out of actual rain tires in the wet (which is why most of the large tire companies no longer make dedicated rain tires.....no need for them).....cold or hot.

They beat the hell out of old school heavy lug snow/mud grips due to sophisticated tread pattern designs coupled with the new rubber compounds.

I spent 3 months in Connecticut winter last year....and the first three months below zero in Iowa.
in the ensuing months...these same tires went through thousands of miles in the northern side of the deep south on torrential rain.....and tons of mud.

The only things they are not designed to beat.m.are actual off road...deep mud and super high speed hot weather driving....but they do high speed highway driving quite well.

Read some articles and some of the thousands of reviews online on modern high speed snow/winter radials.....not to be confused at all....with all season tires. Totally different animals. Ray