Dual port 1700 85.5 x 74

[spencerfvee]

hi frank.. how about a update on your jetting . is every thing ok ? just have not herd from you on the post spencerfvee

[Frank Bassman]

Hey Spencer!

USPS misplaced my package it seems, I called them to see what's going on and they are opening up an "investigation"...

So I haven't received the jets though I should have gotten them on Monday. I will contact the seller if I see the mail service isn't getting anything done... maybe they can go back and forth and perhaps I can get the jets I paid for. These situations suck because I know the seller sent the jets but now it is up to the mail service to decide if they want to own up to their screw up or not!

So everything is on hold. It's too damn bad, I really want to go up on the mains already!

Ironic, I ordered spark plugs after ordering the jets and I already received THOSE!

On the other hand, the carbs have been sent out to Tim and he should get them this weekend. I am having one rebuilt fully and another just rebushed, but he is looking at both to see which is better and if they can be rebuilt. I have a good feeling both will be ok but I'll let Tim decide!

So that's pretty much where I stand. Sometime next week I will change the oil for the third time just for peace of mind and maybe, just maybe, I'll have the jets too and I'll be able to swap em.

By the way, I have a question regarding the fast idle cams on different 34 picts... There are differently sized steps from carb to carb... what is the reason for this? I ask because I have both. I will post a picture of both when I can.

-Frank

[spencerfvee]

hi frank when I worked at a vw dealer ship .the only thing I can think of why they did different idle cams and I am not 100% sure is they ran very lean motors in the 1970s for the EPA and the motors needed a longer warm up time so on a cold day they they would not stall just my two cents on that lol frank PM me your address. I have most of the jets you need you can have them for free . I would be happy to send them to you if you want them let me know what jets you need spencerfvee the motors

[spencerfvee]

hi frank glad you got the jets I will be sending more jets after thanks giving . I just tok off the stock gutted muffler and put on a vw formula vee header that vw dealers sold in 1970 to 1971 as a formula vee header I just got done restoring it . wow did it wake my motor up . I think I might need a 137 main jet . cant wait to hear how your motor is running . heres a picture of my new vintage header it has a great sound to it . spencerfvee

[Frank Bassman]

Hey those exhausts look to be in really good shape! They definitely look different than the current glasspacks we can buy!
(And much nicer.)

Yea you're probably going to need some richening up since your engine will now be able to flow some more.

Tomorrow in the daylight I will install and try the 132 main jet on the carb. I'm thinking that I may end up a bit higher than that though... I mean you are at 135 with your 1600 and you've got big valves and higher compression than me, and a C-25 as well. I'm sure that has something to do with it wanting the larger jets right?

I have a feeling I'm going to end up at 135 with the stock carb and closer to 140 with the modified one.
I guess we will see after some experimentation!

By the way, USPS found my package, so I'm waiting on it as well! That means I will get the 135 in the mail soon.



On another note, there's something I'd like to further beat, for the sake of full comprehension. Perhaps it will be useful to someone building a similar project.

About the choke plate:

Alstrup suggested that a small hole placed on the top part of the choke flap would help the engine breathe better when cold. (Thanks Alstrup!)

I just want to make sure my train of thought is right:

When the choke is closed the carb is "forced" to suck more fuel from it's circuits than when the choke is open, in addition to sucking less air because of the physical restriction imposed by the choke plate. This is what is needed to keep a cold engine running. (Since colder engines want more fuel)

Fine.
Now: Assuming two identical engines except for displacement...


Engine 1, a 1600, sucks less through a stock carb than a larger displacement like mine. (1700)

Therefore, when the 1600 is running on the choke, it sucks a certain amount of fuel and air. This stock carb is designed for the needs of the 1600.

When the 1700 is running, (with the same carb as above, for the 1600) it sucks a higher amount of fuel and air due to its higher vacuum pull through the carb. Correct?
But when it is on the choke, that higher vacuum from the larger displacement will instead force the carb to pull more fuel through the circuits and into the engine than the 1600 would with the choke closed, am I right?


And this extra fuel suction is why a larger engine with the stock carb could potentially "cough with too much fuel" on startup with the choke closed, am I correct?

The small hole to be drilled on the choke plate as suggested earlier is meant to reduce the total suction through the carb and bring it to a level where the engine won't choke on that extra gas, is this correct?

-Frank

[Frank Bassman]

Ok so today I put in the 132 main jet with a 70 air correction
noticed an increase in power, and I think I will put in the 135 main jet because I pulled a plug today after a good run and this is how the plugs looked...

This is the same plug but all of them looked the same. Just focusing on one.

Looks to me like lean still and 135 in the main would be a good idea right?

Also Ive read somewhere that the black ring on the initial threads is a way to roughly gauge the idle mixture. If that is the case, does it look ok?

Spencer do you have any pictures of your plugs for reference?

-Frank

[[email protected]]

are you using a gas additive? How old are those plugs?
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[spencerfvee]

hi frank yes the headers are well made they were made in the usa . I want to try the hole in the chock plate too. just did not have time to do it with thanks giving this week . on the workings of the choke ... CR has a lot to do with how much air is being sucked to the motor from the carb ... I all way run 9:1 CR ... whats your CR? .. I all way run a stock air cleaner for pre heat and the 4" stack it has built into it with out the stack the motor falls on its ass mid to upper RPMS it stops the fuel stand off .at high RPM spencerfvee ..quote="Frank Bassman"]Hey those exhausts look to be in really good shape! They definitely look different than the current glasspacks we can buy!
(And much nicer.)

Yea you're probably going to need some richening up since your engine will now be able to flow some more.

Tomorrow in the daylight I will install and try the 132 main jet on the carb. I'm thinking that I may end up a bit higher than that though... I mean you are at 135 with your 1600 and you've got big valves and higher compression than me, and a C-25 as well. I'm sure that has something to do with it wanting the larger jets right?

I have a feeling I'm going to end up at 135 with the stock carb and closer to 140 with the modified one.
I guess we will see after some experimentation!

By the way, USPS found my package, so I'm waiting on it as well! That means I will get the 135 in the mail soon.



On another note, there's something I'd like to further beat, for the sake of full comprehension. Perhaps it will be useful to someone building a similar project.

About the choke plate:

Alstrup suggested that a small hole placed on the top part of the choke flap would help the engine breathe better when cold. (Thanks Alstrup!)

I just want to make sure my train of thought is right:

When the choke is closed the carb is "forced" to suck more fuel from it's circuits than when the choke is open, in addition to sucking less air because of the physical restriction imposed by the choke plate. This is what is needed to keep a cold engine running. (Since colder engines want more fuel)

Fine.
Now: Assuming two identical engines except for displacement...


Engine 1, a 1600, sucks less through a stock carb than a larger displacement like mine. (1700)

Therefore, when the 1600 is running on the choke, it sucks a certain amount of fuel and air. This stock carb is designed for the needs of the 1600.

When the 1700 is running, (with the same carb as above, for the 1600) it sucks a higher amount of fuel and air due to its higher vacuum pull through the carb. Correct?
But when it is on the choke, that higher vacuum from the larger displacement will instead force the carb to pull more fuel through the circuits and into the engine than the 1600 would with the choke closed, am I right?


And this extra fuel suction is why a larger engine with the stock carb could potentially "cough with too much fuel" on startup with the choke closed, am I correct?

The small hole to be drilled on the choke plate as suggested earlier is meant to reduce the total suction through the carb and bring it to a level where the engine won't choke on that extra gas, is this correct?

-Frank[/quote]

[spencerfvee]

frank put the 137 main jet in it loks like your still running lean . I made use some air jets at the shop today .a 80 a 85 a 90 and a 95 air jet we have jet reamers spencerfvee...

[[email protected]]

You need to do a cutaway to check the jetting via plug color.
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[mark tucker]

and new plugs... do a heat range check too.
I bought a set of bugpoop superflows a while back and usps lost most of them.....they were insured.....the usps site didnt work, the paper mail got lost, the mail man says they never pay claims. and he was right they stole my money and my parts. it's funny how that lost the mail in claim and never got the email claim but sent me a notice denying the claim that they never got effing thieves. I did however get a ripped wide open box and the berg valve cover addaptors. they were the small port street head super flow, ss1 I think. or sfs1. good luck getting your stuff. your close on tune,just a little richer if it were me.

[Frank Bassman]

Fellas,

No additive in fuel. I run 91 octane always though I do think I may be able to get away with 89 (have not tried it yet)

Does it look like I run an additive john? Weird.

Funny you should ask about plug age- these have about 25k miles on them. I have new ones that I will install soon. (Same ones, ngk bp6hs)


I actually received the jets I originally ordered in the mail today... So I will go up to 135 on the main soon. I also think I am going to install that stepped cam for the choke with the large first step. (Closes the choke less per step while maintaining rpm higher, I really should take a picture of it soon perhaps tomorrow)

So this means that I can sacrifice one of the old plugs for the sake of science, and can open it up to see how it is way down in the ceramic part.

So before the 137 I'll try the 135.

Updates to come?

[spencerfvee]

mark that Fu%king sucks . that's why I like fed x and ups yea they cost more to ship but I all ways get my parts . mark have a nice thanks giving . spencerfvee

[Frank Bassman]

Hey mark you most have posted shortly after I did, I didn't even see your post.

That is one horrendous story. Can't believe they didn't own up to the loss. Ridiculous. The only other time I have had a shipping issue was with Cip1, the package was lost in transit by UPS. They ended up sending me the parts again, but if it would have been up to the shipping company I'd have never seen the parts again. It's too bad that one part I ordered was out of stock by the second time around... a oil cooler "hoover bit" that they had in stock. I remember because It was around the time when they started selling them again. (Amazing that they came back to the market huh?)

Anyway, do they look like the heat range needs to be altered? I have a set of BP7HS here as well, I just didn't put them on because I read that they belong mostly on way higher compression or turbo applications... hence why my 1200 mile new motor has 25,000 mile old plugs from my first motor.

I'll read up on heat ranges and see what's going on, if anything. Tomorrow I will go up on the main and change that stepped cam for the choke though.

Also Spencer, I just caught when you mentioned you made some air jets, sweet I'm sure we'll use them at some point.


On another completely unrelated note, I've got a question regarding needle valves on the stock Solexes and I guess in general... what is the consensus on the type that have the ball bearing at the end of the "needle" and the ones that don't? Seems to me like there is less of a leak point in the ones that don't vs the ones that do, but is one really better than the other?

I was looking at some spare carbs I have around and just got to thinking is all... (dangerous thing to do around these parts )

-Frank

[Frank Bassman]

Ok guys so before my drive to Turkey Run in Daytona here is a quick update.

Changed spark plugs. Noticed a small increase in smoothness. (Expected)

New plugs are nice are they not?

Also I did a couple of hard runs and shut off the car before it could idle. Here are the plugs:

First two are with132 main...

Second two are with 135 main!

Looks lean still huh?

-Frank

And by the way happy eat like a turkey day to all!

[[email protected]]

Those are not lean.

You need to look at the base ring, at the BASE OF THE PORCELAIN.

http://jetsrus.com/FAQs/FAQ_spark_plugs.htm
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[spencerfvee]

hi frank how much power did you feal with the 135 main jet ? spencerfvee

[spencerfvee]

hi frank. well frank I am like you all ways trying to improve things on my motor for more power lol. ok heres what I did. I like a stock air air cleaner for the pre heated air for the manifold . what I don't like is the oil bath that's on a stock air cleaner . so I cut the horse hair filter off of the top cover .what I job that was .I then found a used K&N air filter . that would work with my stock 1967 air cleaner . then cut the out oil bathfull out of the bottom of the air cleaner . next I opened up the air intakes on both sides of the air cleaner. I then cut off the out side . small air intake openings . for more air for the carb. on the inside of the air cleaner. I cut open the lip on both sides of the air cleaner .next I cut open the lip on the air cleaner stack . next I cut a foam rug up ( if you have a wife never tell her you cut one of her rugs up for a car part lol) for the bottom of the air cleaner. it took 3 parts of the rug .so the K&N air filter would seal . and it worked hopefully it will flow more air to the carb .and give me more top end power . I plan to put side scoops on the out side of the bug and ram air to the air cleaner it worked well on my 1965 GTO . lol... its night time right now . I ate to much food for thanks giving . I am, paying for it now . it was 63degs out today. that's super for ohio this time of the year . its going to rain. so I cant test it frank ..I will get back to you on how it works . I want to cut a 34pict carb for 36mm throttle plate .and weld up a CB after market stock alum. manifold .and port it for more flow this winter and open the venture up to a 28mm . I realy like a Mallory dizy. so I will try one . setting it up for 14degs intal. all in by 32 degs. total.. EVERY ONE. HOPE YOU ALL HAD A GREAT THANKS GIVING. REMMBER IN JOY YOUR FRIENDS and make sure you take home left overs lol spencerfvee

[spencerfvee]

hi frank well I got a lot of testing in today . the air cleaner mods I did realy helped the motor breath much better it goes to 5,000 rpm much faster . I rely like a Mallory dizy .so I put in a Mallory dual point dizy set up for 14 degs intal all in by 34 degs total what a big differnts over the stock auto stick dizy with 009 guts . I am very happy on the free way I can go from 70 mph to 86 mph like right now when I pass a car .I still had more pedal to go it will do 90mph or better that's fast enough for me . I still think I need a 137 main jet . the formula headers are also helping the power out put . I realy like the headers it woke the motor up a lot today I just want to drive my bug today we are having a heat wave today its 45 degs out here in ohio last year it was 12" of snow and in the teens ..spencerfvee[im

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[Frank Bassman]

Ok I am back from Turkey Run! What a large show I must say... I mean I don't know how my legs are still attached. I may have died if I didn't have the four beers I had, seriously it was a workout.

I saw what you did to that air cleaner... and I have an itch now and I have to do it as well. But I won't do it to mine, I'll see where I can source a cheap air cleaner and modify it. (I Have a 68 only and don't want to screw that one up.)

Man, when I went to the VW show a couple of weeks ago I could have bought an aircleaner for 10 bucks but I didn't because I am a true dumbass... oh well.

Seems like a nice modification to be done! If I can get another 68 only cleaner I can run it without cutting the inlets because they have a large opening for the preheated air... which is surely big enough for breathing purposes. ( I don't run the pre-heat so it would work for me)


What model K&N filter did you use? Seals up perfectly with the rug? I know someone did this mod to a Ghia filter but this is totally doable to the bug too!

As far as the jetting, I think 135 is where my motor likes the jetting best, but I will make use of the link that John posted here and proceed to saw off the threads in my old plug set to confirm how it is running. I haven't even put 50 miles on the new plugs since I put them in so I think they are still coloring up... but the old plugs can certainly be read. As soon as I saw em I'll post pictures. (No promises for soon... I'm in finals week in school and completely saturated with classwork and exams...)

The reason I want to try the cleaner mod is because I do feel like perhaps the motor wants to breathe more at high rpm, and the cleaner is being restrictive. It may be a dirty heap of coconut fivers, but I cleaned them about a year ago. Maybe I should clean them again? (I soaked them with multiple washes of gas, drained them until gas came out clear, then hot water, dried with a hair dryer, and finally flooded them with kerosene, drained and let dry before installing back on.)

In other news, Tim is working on the carbs, so I should have them back in not too long. Nice guy he is, truly.

Spencer, how have your plugs been looking with the 135 main? I'd think 135 may be right around where your motor wants to be, maybe even a bit on the rich side, but maybe your cam and valve combo say otherwise?

Nice to hear you're having fun with the motor!

More to come

-Frank