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JohnnyRingo
Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2011
Posts: 415
Location: United States
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 Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:01 am Post subject: Running hot STUMPED again. |
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| Well I've been running 225-235 oil temps, outside temps in the 90's. So I changed oil 10-30 as just about everyone suggested, and a wix 51515r filter. I didn't get 15 minutes up the road at 55-60 and started smokin, my new hot oil sender dipstick(savemybug) oil was coming from the dipstick tube and the sender was pegged at 235. I pulled sender dipstick out and installed regular dipstick drove home 45-50 checked oil temps 245, with eloctronic meat probe. It was like I had to much pressure and it blew up from the dipstick....plus temps shot up......I just drove this bus 45 minutes the other night with new sender dipstick, 40w oil and fram hp1 oil filter, sender barely flickered at 225. So its got to be the oil or the wix filter?????? All new tins in place, aftermarket new doghouse, 66 bus big nut tranny, stock tires, all seals present.1904 74x90.5 dual 40mm webers, 30mm oil pump full flowed, mag case all new built by pat@cbperformance. I have read till I'm cross-eyed about temps pressure etc. John@aircooled articles suggested 10-30 oil in almost all new engines, and @45 oil psi it bypasses oil cooler......it seems like the thinner oil created more pressure and hotter temps???? Pat@cbperformance suggested I run 20-50 in summer......trying to find the sweet spot with oil grades. I know aircooled harleys and piston avation engines run 15-50/20-50 oil. |
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busdaddy
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Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51125
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:47 am Post subject: |
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What oil was in it before the change?
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Stocknazi
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Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 5150
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:56 am Post subject: |
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There are other threads that have many opinions about what oil to use; lots of opinions there.
I don't think the oil is going to cause that much increase in engine temps.
Is your timing ok? Maybee your running lean?
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JohnnyRingo
Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2011
Posts: 415
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| What oil was in it before the change? |
straight 40w. Same brand valoline vr1, and I was using fram hp1 filter....been running this combo 600 miles on new engine. |
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JohnnyRingo
Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2011
Posts: 415
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 10:01 am Post subject: |
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| StockNazi wrote: |
There are other threads that have many opinions about what oil to use; lots of opinions there.
I don't think the oil is going to cause that much increase in engine temps.
Is your timing ok? Maybee your running lean? |
nothing has changed since last 500 miles on 40 w oil/fram hp1 filter.....as others suggested I changed to 10-30 and this was the results? |
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64 ragtop volks
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Joined: October 01, 2012
Posts: 543
Location: EARTH
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| those wix filters not a good choice( they are "racing" hi flow, for engines that get rebuilt often) they dont filter oil as good as the fram hp1 or k&n oil filters. i think wix is 60 microns vs 18 microns for the hp1 and k&n( the k&n has a slightly higher burst rating then hp1). timing and intake leaks are prob the biggest reasons for engine running hot. 210 to 220 oil temps are not too bad for driving in summer for a heavy bus. if everything is in order try adding a 1 1/2 qt oil sump and 72 plate external cooler for peice of mind |
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Nubby
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Joined: August 28, 2010
Posts: 605
Location: Down by the river
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 11:41 am Post subject: |
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Johnny,
Here is a pic of my setrab fan. I forgot to send this to you earlier. For my 1904, I have a full flow set-up. I am using a Bosch filter to try it out. I have included this fan as a compliment to it. I am running a stock oil bath set up and have really liked it. Eric Allred at black line racing has some good insight into cooling with his bus. It seems a lot of folks will either remove the fire wall tin/drill holes like Swiss cheese etc. I'm not there yet but my engine runs warm as well. I just finished a 3k mile road trip with no issues. I don't run gauges either. Pm me and we can chat if you want also.
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mandraks
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Joined: November 28, 2004
Posts: 7047
Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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when it is hot, and the engine is running hot, it makes absolutely no sense to change to a lower weight oil.... i can't imagine any reason why you would not want to run a 20/50 weight oil. 40 weight is a heavy duty (as in truck and diesel) oil anyway.
At the same time there is really no reason why it should suddenly run hotter just because of the oil, unless you get blowby with the thinner oil.
As far as the oil filter goes, the motor came without one, adding one will not make it worse.
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60vwnewengland
Twin #2
Joined: June 25, 2003
Posts: 1784
Location: District of Columbia & Cape Cod
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 1:46 pm Post subject: |
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new motors run a little hot right? After break in, it should work itself out? Can someone confirm this?
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Stocknazi
Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 5150
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| mandraks wrote: |
when it is hot, and the engine is running hot, it makes absolutely no sense to change to a lower weight oil.... i can't imagine any reason why you would not want to run a 20/50 weight oil. 40 weight is a heavy duty (as in truck and diesel) oil anyway.
At the same time there is really no reason why it should suddenly run hotter just because of the oil, unless you get blowby with the thinner oil.
As far as the oil filter goes, the motor came without one, adding one will not make it worse. |
Not trying to start a oil debate, but I use 15w-40 Shell Rotella-T in my less worn/newer motors, and 20w-50 Castrol in my mystery/more worn motors. Single weight oils get more thin as they get hot. Mulit-weights are thinner at lower temps and provide better wear protection; they get thicker when hot.
If you are running 230/240 oil temps you have something else going on not related to the oil. Check timing, carb jets too lean, intake leaks, etc.
If this is a new motor, do you know your compression ratio? Higher compression will cause higher temps.
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"When the people are afraid of the government, that's tyranny. But when the government is afraid of the people, that's liberty."
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JohnnyRingo
Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2011
Posts: 415
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| StockNazi wrote: |
| mandraks wrote: |
when it is hot, and the engine is running hot, it makes absolutely no sense to change to a lower weight oil.... i can't imagine any reason why you would not want to run a 20/50 weight oil. 40 weight is a heavy duty (as in truck and diesel) oil anyway.
At the same time there is really no reason why it should suddenly run hotter just because of the oil, unless you get blowby with the thinner oil.
As far as the oil filter goes, the motor came without one, adding one will not make it worse. |
Not trying to start a oil debate, but I use 15w-40 Shell Rotella-T in my less worn/newer motors, and 20w-50 Castrol in my mystery/more worn motors. Single weight oils get more thin as they get hot. Mulit-weights are thinner at lower temps and provide better wear protection; they get thicker when hot.
If you are running 230/240 oil temps you have something else going on not related to the oil. Check timing, carb jets too lean, intake leaks, etc.
If this is a new motor, do you know your compression ratio? Higher compression will cause higher temps. |
8.5 cr.....don't see how timing and carb jets changed over night.....but with a vw who knows......the reason I changed oil is because just about everyone suggested with 40w oil I had high oil pressure w/30mm oil pump around 45psi and oil relief pistons was causing oil to bypass oil cooler.....like I said this happened over night when I changed the oil??????? |
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joe cool
Samba Member
Joined: August 20, 2006
Posts: 1259
Location: Yolo County CA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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possible stuck oil control piston?
also check for intake leaks and timing, as others have said |
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Bruce Amacker
Samba Member
Joined: December 26, 2007
Posts: 1786
Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:45 pm Post subject: Re: Running hot STUMPED again. |
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| JohnnyRingo wrote: |
| Well I've been running 225-235 oil temps, outside temps in the 90's. So I changed oil 10-30 as just about everyone suggested, and a wix 51515r filter. I didn't get 15 minutes up the road at 55-60 and started smokin, my new hot oil sender dipstick(savemybug) oil was coming from the dipstick tube and the sender was pegged at 235. I pulled sender dipstick out and installed regular dipstick drove home 45-50 checked oil temps 245, with eloctronic meat probe. It was like I had to much pressure and it blew up from the dipstick....plus temps shot up......I just drove this bus 45 minutes the other night with new sender dipstick, 40w oil and fram hp1 oil filter, sender barely flickered at 225. So its got to be the oil or the wix filter?????? All new tins in place, aftermarket new doghouse, 66 bus big nut tranny, stock tires, all seals present.1904 74x90.5 dual 40mm webers, 30mm oil pump full flowed, mag case all new built by pat@cbperformance. I have read till I'm cross-eyed about temps pressure etc. John@aircooled articles suggested 10-30 oil in almost all new engines, and @45 oil psi it bypasses oil cooler......it seems like the thinner oil created more pressure and hotter temps???? Pat@cbperformance suggested I run 20-50 in summer......trying to find the sweet spot with oil grades. I know aircooled harleys and piston avation engines run 15-50/20-50 oil. |
1. It's full flowed, but you don't mention a cooler. Are you running a stock doghouse cooler on a 1904 with dual carbs?
2. Thinner oils will give you higher oil temps, I proved it one day by changing my oil about 5 times in a row trying different viscosities and running it down the highway. (2180 Ghia)
3. Temps of 215-225 are normal, don't worry about them.
Your 1904 with dual carbs in a heavy bus will run hot with a stock doghouse cooler. Maybe either a T4 cooler or remote since it's already plumbed.
FWIW, I'm running 10w-50 Mobil 1 in my Ghia. Going to a T4 cooler in the doghouse (no full flow, but with filter pump) dropped my temps from 265 to 225-235 @80mph. T4 cooler has 40% more fins and is basically a bolt-on with minor shroud modification.
Good Luck!
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'66 Deluxe Bus
'65 Standard Bus
Build threads:
'66- http://www.leakoil.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2888&sid=54d8dedfb3822f99c7f2ea430cb4e856
'65- http://leakoil.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=4263 |
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Daddybus
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Joined: June 15, 2000
Posts: 1653
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:50 pm Post subject: Oil |
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Multi-weight oils flow like the lower number when cold and protect like the higher number when hot. 10/30 oil flows like a light weight 10wt oil when cold and protects like a 30wt oil when hot. Multi-weight oils can work at higher temps because they don't transfer heat (absorb heat) like straight weight oils. The heat stays in the motor (crank and pistons).
VW specified single weight oil because the oil cools the motor so the oil needs to absorb the motor heat and then transport the heat out of the motor via the oil cooler. You want to use single weight oil.
High engine oil temps can be due to compression ration CR8.5 in a bus requires premium gas. Too lean and you run hot. A rag or paper towel in the fan will also cause the motor to run hot (check the fan). Too much timing advance will cause the motor to run hot (check timing and make sure total advance at 3K rpm doesn't exceed 30*).
0) check fan for debris.
1) Re-adjust valves .006" with aluminum pushrods or .000" with chromoly pushrods (tighten CroMo pushrods so that the pushrods can stil rotate in their rocker arms).
2) Set timing.
3) Adjust carb mixture and sync carbs
4) use a wide-band meter to check mixture.
Last edited by Daddybus on Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:56 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Teeroy 
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Joined: April 20, 2003
Posts: 3685
Location: Eastern WA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 3:51 pm Post subject: Running hot STUMPED again. |
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Where are the lines to your filter running (near header , or in your hot air from sled tins)? Try wrapping them in fire sleeve if not covered, will lower temps for you.
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JohnnyRingo
Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2011
Posts: 415
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 4:13 pm Post subject: Re: Running hot STUMPED again. |
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| Teeroy wrote: |
| Where are the lines to your filter running (near header , or in your hot air from sled tins)? Try wrapping them in fire sleeve if not covered, will lower temps for you. |
yeah they do run over top of ceramic a1 sidewinder header and in the path of sled tins with industrial sheilds.......but I just recently wraped the lines with one inch exhaust wrap, they were touching the header before.....that was one of my trouble shooting ideas, thanks. |
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JohnnyRingo
Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2011
Posts: 415
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: Running hot STUMPED again. |
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| Bruce Amacker wrote: |
| JohnnyRingo wrote: |
| Well I've been running 225-235 oil temps, outside temps in the 90's. So I changed oil 10-30 as just about everyone suggested, and a wix 51515r filter. I didn't get 15 minutes up the road at 55-60 and started smokin, my new hot oil sender dipstick(savemybug) oil was coming from the dipstick tube and the sender was pegged at 235. I pulled sender dipstick out and installed regular dipstick drove home 45-50 checked oil temps 245, with eloctronic meat probe. It was like I had to much pressure and it blew up from the dipstick....plus temps shot up......I just drove this bus 45 minutes the other night with new sender dipstick, 40w oil and fram hp1 oil filter, sender barely flickered at 225. So its got to be the oil or the wix filter?????? All new tins in place, aftermarket new doghouse, 66 bus big nut tranny, stock tires, all seals present.1904 74x90.5 dual 40mm webers, 30mm oil pump full flowed, mag case all new built by pat@cbperformance. I have read till I'm cross-eyed about temps pressure etc. John@aircooled articles suggested 10-30 oil in almost all new engines, and @45 oil psi it bypasses oil cooler......it seems like the thinner oil created more pressure and hotter temps???? Pat@cbperformance suggested I run 20-50 in summer......trying to find the sweet spot with oil grades. I know aircooled harleys and piston avation engines run 15-50/20-50 oil. |
1. It's full flowed, but you don't mention a cooler. Are you running a stock doghouse cooler on a 1904 with dual carbs?
2. Thinner oils will give you higher oil temps, I proved it one day by changing my oil about 5 times in a row trying different viscosities and running it down the highway. (2180 Ghia)
3. Temps of 215-225 are normal, don't worry about them.
Your 1904 with dual carbs in a heavy bus will run hot with a stock doghouse cooler. Maybe either a T4 cooler or remote since it's already plumbed.
FWIW, I'm running 10w-50 Mobil 1 in my Ghia. Going to a T4 cooler in the doghouse (no full flow, but with filter pump) dropped my temps from 265 to 225-235 @80mph. T4 cooler has 40% more fins and is basically a bolt-on with minor shroud modification.
Good Luck! |
yeah I have read your research in you're topic forum.....going to change oil back to straight 40w like before or 20-50w |
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JohnnyRingo
Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2011
Posts: 415
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 4:43 pm Post subject: Re: Running hot STUMPED again. |
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| JohnnyRingo wrote: |
| Bruce Amacker wrote: |
| JohnnyRingo wrote: |
| Well I've been running 225-235 oil temps, outside temps in the 90's. So I changed oil 10-30 as just about everyone suggested, and a wix 51515r filter. I didn't get 15 minutes up the road at 55-60 and started smokin, my new hot oil sender dipstick(savemybug) oil was coming from the dipstick tube and the sender was pegged at 235. I pulled sender dipstick out and installed regular dipstick drove home 45-50 checked oil temps 245, with eloctronic meat probe. It was like I had to much pressure and it blew up from the dipstick....plus temps shot up......I just drove this bus 45 minutes the other night with new sender dipstick, 40w oil and fram hp1 oil filter, sender barely flickered at 225. So its got to be the oil or the wix filter?????? All new tins in place, aftermarket new doghouse, 66 bus big nut tranny, stock tires, all seals present.1904 74x90.5 dual 40mm webers, 30mm oil pump full flowed, mag case all new built by pat@cbperformance. I have read till I'm cross-eyed about temps pressure etc. John@aircooled articles suggested 10-30 oil in almost all new engines, and @45 oil psi it bypasses oil cooler......it seems like the thinner oil created more pressure and hotter temps???? Pat@cbperformance suggested I run 20-50 in summer......trying to find the sweet spot with oil grades. I know aircooled harleys and piston avation engines run 15-50/20-50 oil. |
1. It's full flowed, but you don't mention a cooler. Are you running a stock doghouse cooler on a 1904 with dual carbs?
2. Thinner oils will give you higher oil temps, I proved it one day by changing my oil about 5 times in a row trying different viscosities and running it down the highway. (2180 Ghia)
3. Temps of 215-225 are normal, don't worry about them.
Your 1904 with dual carbs in a heavy bus will run hot with a stock doghouse cooler. Maybe either a T4 cooler or remote since it's already plumbed.
FWIW, I'm running 10w-50 Mobil 1 in my Ghia. Going to a T4 cooler in the doghouse (no full flow, but with filter pump) dropped my temps from 265 to 225-235 @80mph. T4 cooler has 40% more fins and is basically a bolt-on with minor shroud modification.
Good Luck! |
yeah I have read your research in you're topic forum.....going to change oil back to straight 40w like before or 20-50w...yes I have stock doghouse cooler.....rather change to type four cooler, the maybe a 356 gen pulley but I want to do things at stages and monitor temps....just as you did. |
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JohnnyRingo
Samba Member
Joined: October 22, 2011
Posts: 415
Location: United States
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Well I did my same run as the night before I changed oil to 10-30. I used 20-50w vr1 and about a half way my hot oil dipstick sender started to flicker at 225 degrees at 55-60 mph. When I got home I checked oil with electronic probe 225 degrees.....so all is well but no change in temps from 40w to 20-50w. So going to take her out for a spin in the 90's tomorrow, and check temps. I have been running 225-235 temps on 90 degree days. I think the next stage will be a 356 gen pulley and see if it makes a difference, I know it should help heads cool better.....I need to buy a infered gun to check head temps next. |
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redxxrdr
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Joined: May 07, 2014
Posts: 37
Location: South West Georgia, USA
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2015 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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I have seen synthetic oil raise the temperature 2-3 degrees on my bikes. And they are water cooled. Are you using the same type of oil as you did at the previous oil change besides weight?
And is it possible that a plastic bag or a shop rag was left in the engine compartment? Maybe sucked into the fan and blocking the cooler? |
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