Motor doesn't seem right.

[Skulptorchaz]

First off, it only has about 400 miles on it. It's a 1915 with the largest SCAT street cam. Heads are stock but "opened up". I have the 009 distributor with mechanical points (But I have electronic to go in) Wires are "yellow" and should probably be "red" (or some other brand). There is no tin under the heads or "sleds". The fan shroud heater openings are welded shut.

I took it on it's first interstate run today and the oil temp got up to 235* while cruisin about 65mph. When I got to a long hill, not mountain steep but a good hill, later in the ride, she got up to 260*. The shop that did my bottom end and where I got the gauges from said it was OK till 300* then you better get her over to the side - you got a problem. So, I thought the temps were acceptable.

After cruisin for about 1/2 hour and been running 235*, she "burped" but came out of it. She also just doesn't seem to have the "umpf" when it gets up to 235*, OR, maybe it's just after cruisin for an extended period. But running around town or out in the country, I never notice the lack of power. And the temp doesn't get over 180*.
It seems to start pretty quick and good so I think I have the timing correct.
I am suspicious of the ignition system and even thought maybe my fuel tank cap (S-10 Truck) wasn't vented properly.
Any suggestions guys??

[BL3Manx]

You might want to get one of these, your temp gauge system might be doubtful. At 230 you really want to back off the gas, at 235, pull over. If you really hit 300, you probably have damage.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1196002

http://www.savemybug.com/

The under cylinder cooling tin has to be installed. I'm not sure what kind of cooling shroud, pulley or oil cooler you have, but a stock doghouse shroud and oil cooler with a stock diameter pulley are pretty much the minimum you should have. You need to take whatever steps are necessary to keep the oil under 230 or that engine will have a very short life.

You don't have heat risers on your intake manifold, if there's any amount of humidity there in Indiana, you're probably getting ice in the carb venturis which will definitely cause a burp

[didget69]

Extended running at temps over 250 are asking for trouble.

"So what is the “correct” temperature? (from another article)

For normal (non performance) engine’s – Make sure the engine is driven under normal conditions for 30 minutes before measuring the engine temperature.

Temperature Readings

180F (82C) = Cold Running

180F-210F (82 – 99C) = Nominal

210F-250F (99 – 121C) = High-Normal, For Type 1 engine running High-Normal is tolerated especially in the summer when the ambient temperature is higher. This is a normal temperature for a Type 4 or Type 1 performance engine.

250F-280F (121– 138C) = High; the engine should be investigated for cooling and mechanical issues. The viscosity of good synthetic oil will not be reduced. This temperature can be tolerated for short periods of driving i.e. to make it to a safe place for recovery.

280F> (138C >) = Critical; If the oil pressure light is on, shut down immediately. If not pull over at a safe location and leave the engine to idle, this will cool the engine down, do not rev it or try to drive once the temperature has reduced."

You need the tins / flaps / working thermostat to keep the air flowing properly to cool the engine. Are you using a doghouse shroud & stock cooler setup?

bnc
_________________
I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door.

[Skulptorchaz]

Well, I am using VDO gauges and senders - brand new. I know there can be bad ones straight outta the box but, I am hoping not. I do have an infra red heat gun that I can also use to verify, but I'm not sure where to check and for what temp. But you feel that the dip stick is a better unit??
The Shroud is the original with the heater ports welded in. The dog house is original as is the oil cooler. The pulley I JUST put on and it's the "sand seal" type, not a power pulley. (leaks too)
Humidity in Indiana? Oh yeah... you can bathe in it. So even when it's 85* outside, sunny and on the highway, it can "ice"?? Wow, I knew that was an issue in the winter but I would have never guessed. So, since I run a header, and can't run any heat up to the manifold, is there so other way to heat it? If not, I will look at fabbing something. (Having a weld/fab shop helps )
Judging by the chart, I should have been OK yesterday, but I will want to do what I need to to keep it cooler. All the normal running around I do with it only gets it up to about 180* so I need to figure out what I need for the interstate.
Whataya think?? And THANK YOU for all the helpful info so far!!!!!!!!!!!!
Chaz
Here are some pix of the engine.

[jspbtown]

Where is your temp sender located?

[BL3Manx]

You have a nice looking Manx. Besides the heat risers I would also strongly recommend one of these, they make a surprising difference.

http://vwparts.aircooled.net/Aircooled-Net-SVDA-Distributor-p/acn-svda.htm

[Letterman7]

Carburetors ice due to the pressure differences. Carburetor icing occurs when there is humid air, and the temperature drop in the venturi causes the water vapor to freeze. The ice will form on the surfaces of the carburetor throat, further restricting it.

I have to ask - are the tins in place between the cylinders and pushrods? It's unusual for a buggy motor to overheat unless there is something way out of whack. One thing I can see that might be a partial cause is the location of the exhaust outlet - with the low pressure area behind the buggy, the fan is pulling back that hot exhaust output. I'd even venture to try to put a fresh air duct/opening as close to the fan inlet as you can.

[didget69]

The jetting on his Progressive carb might come into play as well -

Look up at engine from underside - do your see these tins in place?

bnc
_________________
I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door.

[jspbtown]

Lets not forget about timing. Too much advance?

[vwracerdave]

You need to replace that clear distributor cap. They are pure junk and will leave you stranded on the side of the road.
_________________
2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK

[Skulptorchaz]

Sender is right in the middle of the last picture. Supposedly, I am told it is before the cooler so it will show the oil a little hotter. (that is what the guy said who told me about the temps.)

Thanx for the compliment! I think it will be pretty nice when she is in good paint. (this winter) There is quite a bit of custom fab stuff on it that I like to do.
I doubt I will buy a new distributor since I just bought this one and haven't even put the electronics in it yet. I will check timing tho. What would you suggest??
Heat risers??

But even in THIS weather, it an ice up?? I knew how it did it but never would have thought I'd have an issue with these summer temps.

How does the jetting effect it? What size jets should I use?
Yeah, those tins are in between the jugs. He has them "tied up" with stainless steel wire.

Do you recommend a little different timing than stock? I usually start where it's recommended and adjust from there.

Thanx again for all the help guys!! We are taking a few hour ride again tomorrow but not on the interstate. If there is something I can get done before then, I will. MUCH appreciated!!!!

I heard that about the clear caps. I'll look into one when I put the electronics in the dist.

[jspbtown]

That looks like a pressure send/idiot light combo not a temp sender. Am I looking at the wrong thing?

009 is 28-32 degrees at 3000rpm

[Skulptorchaz]

That is. The sending unit is below it sticking "up" into the block.

[Glasser]

What compression does the motor have?
My 1776 is 8.5:1 and runs 180-190 Deg. My temp sending unit is located in the same place as yours. (Just giving you something to compare to).
_________________
Brent
My build up http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=265364&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
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[Skulptorchaz]

Wish I knew Glasser. It's been so long since I had it built, I don't know.

I did put about 200 miles on it going to a VW Meet and back and it ran about 185-190 the whole way. I just took highways and not the Interstate. I don't want to NOT have the option of the Interstate so I am going to HAVE to figure this out. I guess lower tins or sleds will be one of my first options.
Timing was good.
I may look into how I can get better air flow to the fan as well. (Fender mounted scoops with ducts to the fan opening. ?????? Just a thought.)
Maybe Bologna slice the exhaust tip?
Better oil cooler?

[SamT]

Does your fan shroud have a thermostat? Or did it at one time? Could be the veins are closed down. Is your oil pressure really high at interstate speed? The cooler can bypass at high pressure, I'm not sure how high though.

[Skulptorchaz]

Nope, no stat on the shroud.
Oil pressure is right at 30 when going down the road. Even when in the hotter zone.

[LeeVW]

Did you ever get a chance to check the timing? I know you said you thought it might be ok, but you need to check it with a stroboscopic timing light at full advance to be sure. Overly advanced timing will give the symptoms you've described.

Lee

[Skulptorchaz]

Yeah, I did. (Thanx Lee!) It was 19. I'm told that is OK. (??) But, I was also told 300* was the point of damage, not necessarily cooler.
I still want to put tin (probably sleds) under the heads too. I can make sleds.
Like I mentioned, Saturday it ran at what I understand to be a very acceptable temp (about 185*) but, it wasn't down the Interstate. And altho I won't run the interstate much, I will run it on occasion. What Letterman said about the exhaust makes sense too. That is why I was contemplating "ducts" to divert air going down to the fan and maybe create better air flow pushing the exhaust out. Also, cutting the exhaust end on a bologna slice.
Now granted, this might just be "Jerry-riggin" as I wonder if other buggy's have this issue. I'm all for tried and true.
I was told a larger pulley would be good as it would increase the air flow but, I'm also told, they are hard to come by. Plus, I JUST put the new Sand Seal pulley on and I'd hate to change it.
Is there a better oil cooler??
I don't want to run a sump but, I was thinking an oil filter may help with some volume as well.
I'm not trying to reinvent the wheel here, just thinking out of the box - as usual.
Thanx!!!

[didget69]

Just use stock tins instead of reinventing the wheel. Without having the proper tins in place, the cooling air won't remain circulating around the heads & cylinders long enough to 'pick up the heat' and transfer it away. You should not need additional ducts or anything to get more air to the fan shroud air intake. Stock diameter VW pulley should be all that you need.

bnc
_________________
I never found the need to impress people with any mechanic certifications, trophies or track wins... unless it was for Mom to post on the refrigerator door.