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Poptopcamper Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2012 Posts: 490 Location: Sheridan, Wyoming
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:46 am Post subject: Ruptured new shock absorbers?? |
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I was putting new brake shoes on the rear of my 78 Riviera, when I lowered it there was oil on the ground on the driver's side. After I did the passenger side, there was oil on the ground too, after I lowered the bus. It took me a while but I traced it to the new shocks I put on. It looks like they both ruptured. I put them on last summer and haven't driven the bus. I've been busy and am just getting back to working on it. I got new tires last summer and have lifted the bus at least four times to put each of those on with no oil leaks from the shocks. I live in Wyoming where it's way below freezing even in my unheated garage, but that shouldn't be the cause. I'm stumped. I don't want to put on two new shocks just to have them rupture too. Anyone have any ideas what could cause them to fail just from being raised and lowered on the Jack?
_________________ If you only have one tool in your tool box, and it's a hammer, pretty soon, everything looks like it needs to be whacked!
1978 VW Riviera
2021 Dodge Ram 3/4 ton
2020 VW Tiguan
2001 Harley Electraglide Classic
1986 BMW R 800cc motorcycle
2002 Chevy Camaro Z28
1999 Harley Sportster 1200 Custom |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50259
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 11:59 am Post subject: |
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What brand of shocks? Do they give normal travel? When the vehicle is raised do the axle drop down so the spring plates rest on the stops? |
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Poptopcamper Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2012 Posts: 490 Location: Sheridan, Wyoming
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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I can't see a name and I threw away the box last summer. Made in Japan and I bought them from Bus Depot. They are supposedt fit a 1978 bus.?? _________________ If you only have one tool in your tool box, and it's a hammer, pretty soon, everything looks like it needs to be whacked!
1978 VW Riviera
2021 Dodge Ram 3/4 ton
2020 VW Tiguan
2001 Harley Electraglide Classic
1986 BMW R 800cc motorcycle
2002 Chevy Camaro Z28
1999 Harley Sportster 1200 Custom |
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Wildthings Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50259
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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From the color they would likely be KYB shocks, maybe they don't like sitting when they are recently installed and the seals haven't had a chance to seat from use? |
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Poptopcamper Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2012 Posts: 490 Location: Sheridan, Wyoming
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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I think they are KYB. I hope that's all it is. I will put on some new ones and keep fingers crossed. I put the same brand shocks on front at the same time and no leaks. Maybe the bus is pissed that I'm taking so long to get it on the road and showed me. I'm retired now so I have time to finish the restoration. _________________ If you only have one tool in your tool box, and it's a hammer, pretty soon, everything looks like it needs to be whacked!
1978 VW Riviera
2021 Dodge Ram 3/4 ton
2020 VW Tiguan
2001 Harley Electraglide Classic
1986 BMW R 800cc motorcycle
2002 Chevy Camaro Z28
1999 Harley Sportster 1200 Custom |
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Joey Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005 Posts: 5364 Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
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Poptopcamper Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2012 Posts: 490 Location: Sheridan, Wyoming
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Joey. So if you were ordering KYBs for a 78 bus which one would you choose or would you go with a different brand. _________________ If you only have one tool in your tool box, and it's a hammer, pretty soon, everything looks like it needs to be whacked!
1978 VW Riviera
2021 Dodge Ram 3/4 ton
2020 VW Tiguan
2001 Harley Electraglide Classic
1986 BMW R 800cc motorcycle
2002 Chevy Camaro Z28
1999 Harley Sportster 1200 Custom |
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Joey Samba Member
Joined: August 12, 2005 Posts: 5364 Location: Nova Scotia - Canada
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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I'd get the 344082s. Personally, I find the KYB Gas a just a bit too stiff. _________________ Joey
‘60 Kombi - '74 Bus - '79 Panel - '65 Beetle |
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Brian Samba Moderator
Joined: May 28, 2012 Posts: 8340 Location: Oceanside
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Poptopcamper Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2012 Posts: 490 Location: Sheridan, Wyoming
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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I read Joey's threads and I remember that I had to lift the shock to get it to fit in the top fitting and I thought that was odd. But once I got it on, I didn't worry about it. Until now. So I just crawled under the bus and after that Made in Japan stamp are the numbers 554060 U107K. I guess I'll go with the 344082 and if they don't want to fit, I'll know what's wrong. Thanks for the feedback. _________________ If you only have one tool in your tool box, and it's a hammer, pretty soon, everything looks like it needs to be whacked!
1978 VW Riviera
2021 Dodge Ram 3/4 ton
2020 VW Tiguan
2001 Harley Electraglide Classic
1986 BMW R 800cc motorcycle
2002 Chevy Camaro Z28
1999 Harley Sportster 1200 Custom |
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morymob Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2007 Posts: 4683 Location: east-tn
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Posted: Sun Jul 26, 2015 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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Today's parts r notorious 4 being wrong fit or no fit at all. The shock shouldn't under any condition be the 'stop' for up or down wheel travel. Factory has provided these, shocks r built to work freely within these dimensions. EX: if wheel has dropped to it's full down travel when vehicle is jacked.up u should still have some free travel of shock if you remove one end &stretch shock further, same 4 up stop limit. If this not met u will destroy the shock either bottoming out while driving or on aa lift. As usual no warranty offered at this time. |
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Poptopcamper Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2012 Posts: 490 Location: Sheridan, Wyoming
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Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:54 am Post subject: |
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Any site where I find the KYB 344082, it says it's not for my 1978 VW bus. So I'm guessing I just get it and pay no attention to their advice. As long as it has those Magic dimensions of 23.03. 13.9. 9.13? Right? Just clarifying before ordering. Thanks. _________________ If you only have one tool in your tool box, and it's a hammer, pretty soon, everything looks like it needs to be whacked!
1978 VW Riviera
2021 Dodge Ram 3/4 ton
2020 VW Tiguan
2001 Harley Electraglide Classic
1986 BMW R 800cc motorcycle
2002 Chevy Camaro Z28
1999 Harley Sportster 1200 Custom |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 6:57 am Post subject: |
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morymob wrote: |
Today's parts r notorious 4 being wrong fit or no fit at all. The shock shouldn't under any condition be the 'stop' for up or down wheel travel. Factory has provided these, shocks r built to work freely within these dimensions. EX: if wheel has dropped to it's full down travel when vehicle is jacked.up u should still have some free travel of shock if you remove one end &stretch shock further, same 4 up stop limit. If this not met u will destroy the shock either bottoming out while driving or on aa lift. As usual no warranty offered at this time. |
That depends on the shock actually. In fact...many, many shocks including the shocks on the rear of my 412....are designed to be the travel stop.
Also.....a single stroke of travel even if these shocks are not designed to be the travel stop for this vehicle.....would NOT cause this issue. Also these are KYB-Gr-2/excel G series shocks.
They are low pressure gas/oil....but are pressurized. Leaving them fully extended....car up on stands. ....through sub-zero weather with nothing keeping the cups/seals expanded internally....can cause the pressurized section to bypass the seals and force fluid out the top shaft seal.
Also a very common issue with keep shocks/struts extended over time and then lowering the car and causing damage.......is from rust forming on the strut rod and abrading the seal on the first stroke. With the low pressure gas inside it will vent fluid.
Ray |
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Poptopcamper Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2012 Posts: 490 Location: Sheridan, Wyoming
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Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:22 am Post subject: |
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Ordered the KYB 344082 from FCPEuro. Called to confirmed that it would extend to 23.03,etc. I have the 107K kit from my failed shocks. Thanks for everyone's help. _________________ If you only have one tool in your tool box, and it's a hammer, pretty soon, everything looks like it needs to be whacked!
1978 VW Riviera
2021 Dodge Ram 3/4 ton
2020 VW Tiguan
2001 Harley Electraglide Classic
1986 BMW R 800cc motorcycle
2002 Chevy Camaro Z28
1999 Harley Sportster 1200 Custom |
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BusPriest Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2014 Posts: 420 Location: Denver, Co
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Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 7:59 am Post subject: |
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There's no chance that's brake fluid, is there? _________________ 1977 Champagne Transporter Custom Camper.
SOHC EJ25, tubbed, wagenswest
Work in progress build thread: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=619684
Not a Priest. |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 8:53 am Post subject: |
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Also...its worth it to note...take a look at the part # down by the lower eye bushing. There will be a production date there.
You note that its been sitting a year with no exercise. If the shocks had already been sitting for a couple of years on the shelf....there is your problem.
Shocks ...sitting for several years are notorious...just like NOS master cylinders...for seal failures.
The big problem with gas shocks is that if left unused for too long....the gas pressure can leak and bypass to the upper chamber....forcing oil past the seals before they can get exercised and start working. Ray |
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Poptopcamper Samba Member
Joined: June 23, 2012 Posts: 490 Location: Sheridan, Wyoming
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Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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I bled the brakes today. No brake fluid leaks noted. And there was oil on the bottom of the rear shocks with the pool of oil just below on the floor on both sides. 99 3/4 % sure it's shock oil. But I could have poltergeist playing tricks on me. 😎 _________________ If you only have one tool in your tool box, and it's a hammer, pretty soon, everything looks like it needs to be whacked!
1978 VW Riviera
2021 Dodge Ram 3/4 ton
2020 VW Tiguan
2001 Harley Electraglide Classic
1986 BMW R 800cc motorcycle
2002 Chevy Camaro Z28
1999 Harley Sportster 1200 Custom |
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SGKent Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2007 Posts: 41031 Location: Citrus Heights CA (Near Sacramento)
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Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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do you own a male Irish or Scottish terrier? Are there any Irish in your family?
_________________ “Most people don’t know what they’re doing, and a lot of them are really good at it.” - George Carlin |
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raygreenwood Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008 Posts: 21474 Location: Oklahoma City
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Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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SGKent wrote: |
do you own a male Irish or Scottish terrier? Are there any Irish in your family?
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Oh ...man...what you are inferring is cruel! ...in my youth....I might have played tricks like that. Crawl under a buddy's immaculate car and put a dribble of oil under a part...that is not leaking.....and watch the insanity begin....
Ray |
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morymob Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2007 Posts: 4683 Location: east-tn
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Posted: Mon Jul 27, 2015 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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Talking bay shocks not 411,412 or other specialty 'types, 'even brand x's of the same/earlier this still applies, , specialty shock mfgrs may be able to stand up longer with misfitted shocks, not my problem, good stock if they can be found works 4 my purpose, as usual no warranty offered at this time. |
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