Rear suspension help

[72Pstroke]

I want to go with stock by 1" trailing arms for the rear of my Baja and have a couple of questions.
Are the Moore trailing arms pretty decent? The car doesn't see any hard off road use.
Will stock axles and cv's work? I do not have my spring plates notched.
I have the torsion cranked up on the car, and it sits about where I like it when the car is empty. The problem is when I load the car with a weekend of camping stuff, cooler, etc., the back of the car droops considerably to the point the tires will scrub the fenders when you hit a dip in the road. I would like to add some shocks in the rear that I can adjust to help carry the weight and fine tune the ride height. Can someone give me suggestions?
I don't have a cage in the car, and don't want one. I would like to use the stock upper shock mounts.
Thanks for the help.
Tim

[BL3Manx]

Reindex the torsion bars or go with the next thicker ones, no need for the pogo sticks

[72Pstroke]

If I re-index the bars any more, the car will be on the stops unless it is loaded down.
Bigger bars may be an option (it has 22mm bars in it), but I would like something I can adjust to allow for different loads in the car.
Tim

[HERC]

If you're asking if you can put a set of Gabriel hijackers on there and call it a day, go right ahead, who cares if you're just transporting stuff.
If you want to go pounding around and you install 1 inch over arms, using the stock upper mounts, you will have to fab up lower mounts for the arms, as they do not come with them. Plus, you would have to get larger bars, as it's a 1 inch longer fulcrum that would only exacerbate your current plushness issue.
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Herc

[dustymojave]

Now...The man asked about Moore Parts Stock x 1 arms and installing shocks on the stock upper mounts.

Apparently 72Pstroke, you don't understand that the arms you are considering ...

... have no shock mounts on them at all and would need mounts to be welded on. Also that there is no way to install lower mounts like stock ones without hacking big chunks out of the back side of the arms which would essentially destroy the arms. With those arms, you REALLY need to go with upper mounts off the roll cage which you probably do not have.

I'm not saying that those arms with stock shock mounts cannot be done. I'm saying that it would take a substantial amount of engineering and fabricating to make it work. And I expect you're more the weekend home mechanic type than the professional offroad race car fabricator type. Not a put-down, just trying to keep expectations realistic.
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Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[72Pstroke]

Thanks for the input on the trailing arms.
I did realize that the trailing arms do not have any shock mounts. However, I own a fab shop full of cnc equipment and have zero concerns about making a pair of shock mounts. One thing I hadn't considered is the way the top plate on the arm would interfere with a shock that is placed anywhere near the stock location.
I still would like to know if stock type 1 axles and cv's will work with the stock by 1 arms.
As for shocks, I have no experience with the newer nitrogen charged shocks, and was wondering if something like that would be a good solution for some adjustability on ride height with varying loads.
Something I should have mentioned earlier, the car has an Ecotec in it, so it is packing a few extra pounds in the rear. I have adjusted the torsion up about as far as I can go with the current setup.
Tim

[dustymojave]

[72Pstroke]

Fox shocks are what I had in mind when I mentioned nitrogen shocks.

I agree with you on not using the shocks to support the car. I guess the right direction to go would be to change the torsion bars and be done with it. That sucks, because I have already set the torsion bars 3 times to get the ride height where I want it.

Have I read somewhere that type 3 torsion bars are thicker and interchange with a bug? My car is a '74, and has 22mm bars in it.

It looks like I will need to go to different CV's if want to raise the back of it anymore. I am running close to 12* right now with type 1 CV's.
Tim

[VWCOOL]

Type 3 wagon/Square bars are 23.5mm for a slight increase in rate

Maybe consider buying some 25mm or larger bars from Sway-a-Way

Keep in mind for ride comfort and handling, you will need some droop, as well as compression travel... and within the standard damper stroke range you can't do much. However a stiffer damper will help control the extra weight of the heavier wheels in droop and prevent bottoming out in compression/bump

[DHale_510]

Maybe you need to think about spring capacity and rate rather than the initial setting angle which you seem to have already maxed out.

Stock 22mm long style torsions give about 95#/" at the wheel with zero offset. Stock travel is maybe 7", 4" up [380# capacity] and 3" down. If you change to longer arms and wider wheels you will reduce this by 10% to 20%, the leverage change is proportional to the square of the distances.
Then you have added weight with the engine change more or less equal to the weight reduction of the body. And you want to go offroad so maybe a bit more force will be applied than the street car was designed for. You need to compromise between stiffness and travel to call it suspension.

If the springs do not have the load capacity something else will have to do the work, and it will bend, break, or at least be very harsh. Stiff enough will not be harsher than too soft.

25mm bars are rated at 160#/" and 26mm bars are rated at 185#/". They are your friends. SwayAway even makes super torsions that twist about twice as far as standard ones if you really want longer travel without extra stiffness, but of course they cost about twice as much, and special CV joints will be needed.

In [too] simple terms;
Stock Beetle CV joints are good for about 7" of travel and 75hp. You may or may not be happy with them. Bus joints are good for 8" and 100hp. Porsche joints are good for 9" and 125hp. Clearanced Turbo joints are good for 12" and 150hp.

Dennis

[VWCOOL]

Dennis, I run a LOT more than 75hp through standard Beetle CVs... what kills CVs in off-roaders is the shock of free-wheelspin when a wheel leaves the ground, and then comes back down again.. *CHINK*

[HERC]

[VWCOOL]