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cru62
Samba Member
Joined: December 31, 2002
Posts: 4117
Location: Margaritaville.....24/7
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 Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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The only real difference between the trans you have and a T-1/bug transfer is that the T-1 has the ring & pinion on the other side and a different 4th (overdrive) because it doesn't have reduction boxes. A SAK is much simpler than IRS.
I would just swap for a SAK to level out your truck and call it good. If you like that stance and ride, great! If you want to go lower you can, easily, until you get slammed and then you are talking serious money, major mods to your truck and possibly some trade offs on ride (harsher) vs looks (sick!). It's all good. BTDT.
Lose the RGBs ASAP. That negative camber looks dopey on bugs and worse on buses, IMHO.
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nvmipis1
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2012
Posts: 246
Location: riverside , ca.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| mandraks wrote: |
| nvmipis1 wrote: |
| lo-lo55 wrote: |
| Freeway flyer rebuilt trans if you can spend the $, put it all together right and be done with it. Might need a small notch in the frame rails for your tie rods too, mine was that low but raised it a click didn't want to notch it or raise the box. Four inch beam with flipped spindles also, will be a cool truck when your done. |
That's what i was thinking but someone told me tjay i dont have to to all tjay work thay my normal stock trans woild be just fine...just remove the reduction and install type 3 axels and yeah i am definitely going to pit disks brakes in the rear and i wamt to this this right since im going to be taken everything off might as weel put it nack right and with proper upgrades after all i am on a budget  |
yeah that is fine as long as it is okay with you to have 4 reverse gears and 1 forward.... |
So sticking with stock transmission will still give me goid driving soeeds after removal of reduction and installing type 3 axels? Is it same as free way flyers? |
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nvmipis1
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2012
Posts: 246
Location: riverside , ca.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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| cru62 wrote: |
The only real difference between the trans you have and a T-1/bug transfer is that the T-1 has the ring & pinion on the other side and a different 4th (overdrive) because it doesn't have reduction boxes. A SAK is much simpler than IRS.
I would just swap for a SAK to level out your truck and call it good. If you like that stance and ride, great! If you want to go lower you can, easily, until you get slammed and then you are talking serious money, major mods to your truck and possibly some trade offs on ride (harsher) vs looks (sick!). It's all good. BTDT.
Lose the RGBs ASAP. That negative camber looks dopey on bugs and worse on buses, IMHO. |
Yeah im looking for a good ride as well I dont want a shity ride looks are great but I also want it to drive right. I'm pretty much looking for the best suggestions out there and pretty much a direction on how to go about it so can do it right the first time , so basically im looking to go as low as I can but with the best driving capabilities. I want to be able to cruise and looking clean at same time. Not trying to go to crazy with body mods or anything like that. |
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Split 66'
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2010
Posts: 1255
Location: Bay Area, California
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:14 pm Post subject: |
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If you remove your RGB's from the stock transmission and simply put the type3 rear end together, as is, you will have 4 gears in reverse and one gear for forward.
This is because you removed the RGB's and the way those missing gears work with a stock Type2 center section.
What was recommended earlier was to take your stock center section and move the ring gear and carrier bearings to the other side of the pinion, or half of the trans case. Usually called flipping the ring gear, search for those words for more on that. This will give you 4 forward 1 reverse, with T1 or 3 axles.
Depending on the year and model of your stock trans center section, you will have different gear ratios. This all matters and is a delicate balance, for both cooling and torque, now that the RGB's have been removed.
You can then adjust your tire size to either get more or less RPM's, or to change your final drive ratio.
Now that your RGB's are missing, you lost a lot of torque, what engine will you be using to push it?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=66927
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nvmipis1
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2012
Posts: 246
Location: riverside , ca.
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 9:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Split 66' wrote: |
If you remove your RGB's from the stock transmission and simply put the type3 rear end together, as is, you will have 4 gears in reverse and one gear for forward.
This is because you removed the RGB's and the way those missing gears work with a stock Type2 center section.
What was recommended earlier was to take your stock center section and move the ring gear and carrier bearings to the other side of the pinion, or half of the trans case. Usually called flipping the ring gear, search for those words for more on that. This will give you 4 forward 1 reverse, with T1 or 3 axles.
Depending on the year and model of your stock trans center section, you will have different gear ratios. This all matters and is a delicate balance, for both cooling and torque, now that the RGB's have been removed.
You can then adjust your tire size to either get more or less RPM's, or to change your final drive ratio.
Now that your RGB's are missing, you lost a lot of torque, what engine will you be using to push it?
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=66927 |
Sounds complicated , is this route you just gave me an inexpensive one? Or is simply installation a type 1 freeway flyer easier better and oretty much same price? As as far as motor im currently running a 1600 dp but will eventually uograde to 1835 dual carbs |
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Split 66'
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2010
Posts: 1255
Location: Bay Area, California
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| Posted: Thu Jul 30, 2015 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| nvmipis1 wrote: |
Sounds complicated , is this route you just gave me an inexpensive one? Or is simply installation a type 1 freeway flyer easier better and oretty much same price? As as far as motor im currently running a 1600 dp but will eventually uograde to 1835 dual carbs |
The process of flipping the ring gear would be necessary if you want to keep your stock tans center section, but use it with T3 axles and brakes. You can do this yourself but it can be a gamble without the right tools, if you cant check or adjust the preload or the pinion depth, after flipping the ring gear. This would cost you nothing, except for the axles and brakes and spring plates, if you can do this procedure yourself.
If you already have a 12V flywheel on your 1600DP, the easiest thing to do would be to get a rebuilt '71 or later - either T1 or T3 center section - from a reputable builder. The '71 -on trans center section has the upgraded throwout bearing and is 12V already, has good gearing ratios too.
Since you plan to use an engine smaller than 2.0L for the long term, the gearing ratios would be good to get right the first time you do it.
I too have a 1600DP, that I use with a Rancho built '71 T3 trans. This gearing works well for me on all but the steepest of grades. It's a 4.12 ring/pinion with a custom/stock bus 4th gear 0.82. The stock 4th gear for most trans' is 0.89. The 0.82 goes faster on the freeway but has less torque and it can lag badly on steep grades without a 2.0L motor. Best to stick with the stock 4th gear for anything under 2.0L.
Swing axle is cheaper in the long run, easier to install and maintain, but it will produce more camber the lower you go, compared to IRS. If you aren't set on slamming it and just want it faster and sportier, swing axle is a great way to go.
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nvmipis1
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2012
Posts: 246
Location: riverside , ca.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| Split 66' wrote: |
| nvmipis1 wrote: |
Sounds complicated , is this route you just gave me an inexpensive one? Or is simply installation a type 1 freeway flyer easier better and oretty much same price? As as far as motor im currently running a 1600 dp but will eventually uograde to 1835 dual carbs |
The process of flipping the ring gear would be necessary if you want to keep your stock tans center section, but use it with T3 axles and brakes. You can do this yourself but it can be a gamble without the right tools, if you cant check or adjust the preload or the pinion depth, after flipping the ring gear. This would cost you nothing, except for the axles and brakes and spring plates, if you can do this procedure yourself.
If you already have a 12V flywheel on your 1600DP, the easiest thing to do would be to get a rebuilt '71 or later - either T1 or T3 center section - from a reputable builder. The '71 -on trans center section has the upgraded throwout bearing and is 12V already, has good gearing ratios too.
Since you plan to use an engine smaller than 2.0L for the long term, the gearing ratios would be good to get right the first time you do it.
I too have a 1600DP, that I use with a Rancho built '71 T3 trans. This gearing works well for me on all but the steepest of grades. It's a 4.12 ring/pinion with a custom/stock bus 4th gear 0.82. The stock 4th gear for most trans' is 0.89. The 0.82 goes faster on the freeway but has less torque and it can lag badly on steep grades without a 2.0L motor. Best to stick with the stock 4th gear for anything under 2.0L.
Swing axle is cheaper in the long run, easier to install and maintain, but it will produce more camber the lower you go, compared to IRS. If you aren't set on slamming it and just want it faster and sportier, swing axle is a great way to go. |
Damm you gave me reall5 good advise and will run with it! One more quick question, for the front would you suggest 5" narrowed beam since I am sticking with my speed master wheels? Also here is what im currently running up front 165/50/15 rear 195/60/15 and what do you recommend on how to go about the front,? Buy comolete set up? Or by kit to make my own? For narrowing beam, a local shop said they can domy whole front includingbox raise for about $850 out the door parts and labor |
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GTV
Samba Member
Joined: March 27, 2004
Posts: 2084
Location: Si'ahl
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:07 am Post subject: |
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Narrowing more than 4" gets complicated. Your front tires are very short so they will work fine for a slammed bus. I would get some recommendations from the local shop before spending your money there. Suspension is something you don't want done improperly.
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Split 66'
Samba Member
Joined: October 07, 2010
Posts: 1255
Location: Bay Area, California
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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Depending on the rims and tires you plan to run, that will be the deciding factor for your front suspension. Might also be a good time to consider disc brakes up front, with your higher cruising speeds. Or at least leave room for them in the long term plan.
If you can get the offset specs for your current front rims and post them here, someone will be able to give you a better idea of what's needed.
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nvmipis1
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2012
Posts: 246
Location: riverside , ca.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| GTV wrote: |
| Narrowing more than 4" gets complicated. Your front tires are very short so they will work fine for a slammed bus. I would get some recommendations from the local shop before spending your money there. Suspension is something you don't want done improperly. |
Thanks for the tips |
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nvmipis1
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2012
Posts: 246
Location: riverside , ca.
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Split 66' wrote: |
Depending on the rims and tires you plan to run, that will be the deciding factor for your front suspension. Might also be a good time to consider disc brakes up front, with your higher cruising speeds. Or at least leave room for them in the long term plan.
If you can get the offset specs for your current front rims and post them here, someone will be able to give you a better idea of what's needed. |
Sounds good im kost likely going to with rear disk brakes first and hold off on the front for now, thanks fir the information |
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easy e
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2008
Posts: 3931
Location: 1 hr north of Santa Barbara
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| Posted: Fri Jul 31, 2015 5:30 pm Post subject: |
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I'd narrow the front end...only as much as you need.
Imagine you have a Popsicle stick & grab each end & try to torsionally twist in opposite directions. It's pretty stiff... pretend these are your torsion leaves.
Think if you were to cut the Popsicle stick in half & tried the torsional twist again. It becomes stiffer the more you shorten.
Your ride feel will become stiffer the more you narrow your beam (& torsion springs).
e
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Spreadsheet for Bus RPM, based on gearing & tire size (Excel format)
Searchable, click-navigable 1958 Bus Parts List |
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nvmipis1
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2012
Posts: 246
Location: riverside , ca.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| One more quick question any suggestions on steering box? As far as for better driving |
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easy e
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2008
Posts: 3931
Location: 1 hr north of Santa Barbara
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nvmipis1
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2012
Posts: 246
Location: riverside , ca.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 1:29 pm Post subject: |
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| easy e wrote: |
| nvmipis1 wrote: |
| Any suggestions on steering box? As far as for better driving |
$$$ rack & pinion
$ rebuild yours. I have a rebuild Wolfgang International unit & happy so far.
The remainder of front beam steering components & their quality all are additive, address all components for a good steering bus. Steering box & center pin (on the beam) are key.
There's multiple center pin kits in the classifieds... here's one:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1813079
Here's rebuilt steering box (you'll need to cut up I guess?... to do a raised box)... maybe they can doctor it up for you?:
https://www.wolfgangint.com/store/product/steering-boxes-211415049bwg/ |
Got it,
so for more additional information bout the back im currently using 195/60/15 tires and I want a low stance but I want to be able to drive faster then 50 mph . Do you recommend a type 1 freeway flyer with proper drop plates or is there an other way to og with out breaking the bank? |
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easy e
Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2008
Posts: 3931
Location: 1 hr north of Santa Barbara
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| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:02 pm Post subject: |
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Small tire = sucky top end speed
Big tire = higher velocity
Losing the reduction boxes = losing the mechanical torque advantage = you'll have a gutless wonder (if you have less than a two liter engine).
Balance power requirement + tire size + gearing
Picking wheel / tire you like the look of get's rid of one variable.
Pick how much engine $ you want to spend.
Time to start reading some of those links on the first page of this thread.
_________________
aka: Evan
Spreadsheet for Bus RPM, based on gearing & tire size (Excel format)
Searchable, click-navigable 1958 Bus Parts List |
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