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Airkewld
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Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3152
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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 Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:13 am Post subject: |
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| ataraxia wrote: |
1. Yes -although the Airkewld kit requires the threads to be drilled out on one hole due to the hardware they use. You will only learn of this when you read the installation instructions on their website because they don't include instructions with the brake kit when they ship it to you.
2. The CSP is a floating single piston modified GM caliper. The Airkewld uses a Wilwood DynaPro Single caliper. |
About a month ago we started adding directions to the kits. Even though we supply PDF links in the confirmation email, this has been a huge request. We are now supplying them.
CSP uses a single piston caliper, Airkewld uses a 2 piston caliper, the product name is deceiving.
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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3152
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| ataraxia wrote: |
| Tram wrote: |
| What's the cost difference? |
The CSP kit is $250 more expensive but they include bearings, brake hoses, loctite and the overall kit is far easier to assemble. Well worth it, IMO. |
CSP - http://bit.ly/1OXdXa9 - $1369.99 - The CSP German made disc brake kits are the highest quality Front Disc Brake System available. This kit comes with rotors with 5x205mm bolt pattern. Every kit is complete with CNC machined cast alloy hubs with rotors and wheel bearings installed. CNC machined caliper brackets, new 48mm GM calipers with pads, grease caps, stainless-steel dust covers, brake hoses and fitting instructions. Gives a perfect fit - no alterations necessary. For the 62-68 version of this kit, see part number C31-499-327-5205
Airkewld - http://bit.ly/1OXdZPd - $1030 - Installation kit available for $75.00 more that comes with German FAG Bearings, Stainless Steel Brake Lines and New Brake light Switch - Applications
These kits fit the 1961-73 US Spec Type 3 Fastback, Notchback and Squareback.ﾠ You need to have 15" and larger wheels for our disc brakes to work. You will need drum spindles for this kit to fit. Do these brakes add track width? This kit does not add track width with small lug configurations that include 4x130mm, 5x130mm, 5x4.50 and 5x4.50. Wide 5 kits at 3/8" to each side.
Kits Contains - BAD Series rotors in a bolt pattern of your choice with cross drilled rotors, Wilwood 2 Piston calipers, pads, seals, hardware, caliper brackets, and dust caps.
Recommendations - We recommend the installation kit with every disc brake kit we offer. This kit comes with bearings, stainless steel flexible brake hoses and a new brake light switch. We recommend a late model 1973 and later T3 master cylinder that can be purchased locally from Kragen/Schucks/AutoZone.
Why BAD Series Brakes? - Are you tired of adjusting your brakes just to have a subpar brake feel? Do you have to pump your pedal 100 yards before a stop light? Are you trying to fit custom wheels on your ride? Are you tired of buying cheap imported parts? If you answered yes to any of the above questions, the BAD Series Disc brake kit is what you need! My biggest recommendation is for you to only spend your money once. In doing that, make sure you get all the parts needed to do the install right the first time.
Pros versus Cons - Warranty, weight, options, made in the USA and the ability to use any spindle, dropped or stock height. A lifetime warranty on our rotors as well. Some of our competitor?s disc brake kits can be in excess of 76lbs per axle. Our heaviest kit weighs in at 48lbs. Our rotors, Wilwood calipers, brackets, etc. are made in the USA. No one else can say that.
The biggest differences are the rotors. The rotors are made of three parts; hub, the bolt pattern and the rotor. All these parts are made in the USA with high end CNC machines. These rotors allow you to use year specific bearing seals and dust caps. The BAD Series rotors have a lifetime warranty as well. If you wear one out, we will send you a new one free, just pay shipping. These hubs allow the interchanging of bolt patterns. What does this mean? If you order them with a Chevrolet 5x4.75 bolt pattern and a few months later you want to install Porsche wheels, you can! All it takes is removing the bolt patterns from the rotors and installing the new ones. Each pattern is sold separately. The last difference is the ability to add a performance caliper to your car.
We also had Tram install and write up these instructions.
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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3152
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| ataraxia wrote: |
3. The studs on the Airkewld kit are 38mm long, the studs on the CSP kit are 30mm long. My hunch is that the stock hubcaps won't fit over the Airkewld studs without trimming. I've yet to qualify this hunch - but who the hell pays a premium price for something that requires a ton of work? Isn't that the point of paying the premium?
Airkewld brake kit uses a flat bracket with some rough edges:
CSP brake kit has a thicker/cleaner bracket:
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The studs do not need to be modified for Stock hubcaps.
Airkewld Bracket is made up of steel and is cut with a water jet, machined for holes and tumbled. Did the bracket have actual sharp edges, or just not a machined outer edge?
We used steel instead of aluminum because we only had a small gap (between the rotor and the bracket), but is stronger than the thicker aluminum bracket from CSP.
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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3152
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3152
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3152
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| ataraxia wrote: |
Both brackets are made from steel - the CSP bracket is thicker by ~30%. The hubs both appear to be aluminum.
I'll measure the bracket thickness on both once I take the front wheel off the car to get to the CSP kit. The Airkewld kit is on my bench getting disassembled so that I can take dimensions and get a proper bracket machined to eliminate the '10 washers per spindle' approach.
I would think that the CSP kit stands a far better chance of being approved in Australia - just based on what I've seen of its construction. Might also help that it's TUV approved in the EU.
I prefer alloy vs. steel since everything starts rusting as soon as I take it out of the box. That's one thing I miss about when I used to live in California - things would last years before surface rust would develop (if at all). |
Steel Airkewld, Aluminum CSP. Our kit can not be TUV certified due to the Wilwood calipers not having seals. It is a problem for our international clients. I do however have many clients who have been able to pass inspection with the kits and have let me know that all is well. I would check with your local inspector to see if dust seals need to be present in this caliper. http://www.wilwood.com/Calipers/CaliperProd.aspx?itemno=120-9690
As far as the 10 washer thing, we supply 3 thicknesses of spacers. No more than 2 are normally used between the caliper bracket and caliper so this does seem excessive.
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Airkewld
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Joined: November 14, 2003
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Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3152
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:45 am Post subject: |
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| gregson1 wrote: |
I received my CSP early Type 3 front brake kit late this past week. I ordered them direct from CSP in Germany because CIP was out of stock. They gave me an excellent price to help offset shipping costs. EURO exchange rate is still favorable, too, so I ended up saving some money on the entry price.
I'm not happy with the way they package their stuff:
CSP used a blister pack for the caliper brackets and hardware. The caliper brackets are heavy and have relatively sharp edges, so they cut right though the blister plastic during shipping. One of the long caliper mounting bolts also escaped the blister pack and was trapped under the loose caliper brackets, but miraculously no damage was done to the bolt threads.
The calipers shifted in their box and crushed and tore a big hole in the box containing the brake pads. Again, everything looks fine.
The bearings and wheel seals were blister packed to a small card inside the rotor boxes. The brake rotors also shifted and pinned the wheel seals. Damage was cosmetic. |
I too have purchased from them, on a regular basis for their fan shroud kits, they pack light. I had a alternator get damaged for the fan kit. Had to get a replacement sent out, took about 3 weeks to get it.
I have seen Pete talk to the packing guys about filling in any possible void, because UPS and FED ex really don't care. Sorry to see that happen.
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Airkewld
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Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3152
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:51 am Post subject: |
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| ataraxia wrote: |
The Airkewld kit was a giant f'ing mess when it arrived and it only traveled from Arizona.
I'm almost positive that the seals are Type 1. I got the same seals in both brake kits. I couldn't get them to work in the Airkewld kit so I used Type 3 seals and they fit just fine. |
How long ago was the kit purchased? Date? What was a mess about it? I would like to fine tune our packing based on your receipt of our products.
The seals are 69 Ghia front rotor seals.
| Quote: |
Once the races are properly installed and seated to the bottom of the seat, it's time to pack the bearings with grease and install them in the races. Once placed in the rotors, remove any grease or oily residue on the rotors.
Tap the seal in dry. Once the seal is in and is not popping back out, grease the seal, both inner and outer. This will prevent the seal from burning off. |
Why wouldn't they work? Were they popping out?
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| Airkewld wrote: |
| ataraxia wrote: |
Airkewld kit: Had to bore out the holes on the Wilwood calipers to get the bolts to fit:
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We have seen this before. The coating that Wilwood puts on it calipers can vary. We recommend just tightening the bolt into the caliper and when it bottoms out, give it a slight twist and it will clean out the hole. I have requested to have the holes plugged to avoid this, but to no avail. |
Why not quality check your supplier before you ship to the customer vs. blame your supplier?
Provide a solution - not another issue to your customer. |
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ataraxia
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Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| Airkewld wrote: |
| ataraxia wrote: |
The Airkewld kit was a giant f'ing mess when it arrived and it only traveled from Arizona.
I'm almost positive that the seals are Type 1. I got the same seals in both brake kits. I couldn't get them to work in the Airkewld kit so I used Type 3 seals and they fit just fine. |
How long ago was the kit purchased? Date? What was a mess about it? I would like to fine tune our packing based on your receipt of our products.
The seals are 69 Ghia front rotor seals.
| Quote: |
Once the races are properly installed and seated to the bottom of the seat, it's time to pack the bearings with grease and install them in the races. Once placed in the rotors, remove any grease or oily residue on the rotors.
Tap the seal in dry. Once the seal is in and is not popping back out, grease the seal, both inner and outer. This will prevent the seal from burning off. |
Why wouldn't they work? Were they popping out? |
The hardware was all over the place in the box and one of the rotors had a ding in the end. I didn't open the box for two months and given the way my inquiries have been handled by your company, I didn't bother. That experience was repeated when I contacted asking about the kit specifics. |
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Airkewld
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Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3152
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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Airkewld
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ataraxia
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Joined: March 19, 2010
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Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| Airkewld wrote: |
| ataraxia wrote: |
Why not quality check your supplier before you ship to the customer vs. blame your supplier?
Provide a solution - not another issue to your customer. |
Please don't be upset, we have requested this change to no avail. I will make sure this quick tip will be in a revision of the instructions. |
It's too late for me to be upset...I'm stuck with it.
If your supplier ships product to you that YOU KNOW has a potential issue-open the box, check/correct the issue and include with your product. It just makes your company look bad that you've passed this along to the customer. |
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Airkewld
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Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3152
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:03 am Post subject: |
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| ataraxia wrote: |
It's too late for me to be upset...I'm stuck with it.
If your supplier ships product to you that YOU KNOW has a potential issue-open the box, check/correct the issue and include with your product. It just makes your company look bad that you've passed this along to the customer. |
I never said you were stuck with anything, please don't feed into something that is not reality.
I also stated that is was random, not something that happens with all calipers.
Sucks for both of us, that it happened to you, along with a comparison of a competitor on a national forum. Does this make our company look bad? IMO, no. It allows us to further improve as a company.
If you have damages on a product, we handled it. If you have issues, we handle it. I would like to see the inquires that were made to ensure it doesn't happen again.
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:10 am Post subject: |
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| Airkewld wrote: |
| ataraxia wrote: |
It's too late for me to be upset...I'm stuck with it.
If your supplier ships product to you that YOU KNOW has a potential issue-open the box, check/correct the issue and include with your product. It just makes your company look bad that you've passed this along to the customer. |
I never said you were stuck with anything, please don't feed into something that is not reality.
I also stated that is was random, not something that happens with all calipers.
Sucks for both of us, that it happened to you, along with a comparison of a competitor on a national forum. Does this make our company look bad? IMO, no. It allows us to further improve as a company.
If you have damages on a product, we handled it. If you have issues, we handle it. I would like to see the inquires that were made to ensure it doesn't happen again. |
If it happens more than once, it's not 'random' or maybe we work in different realms of 'quality' and 'customer service'. In my world - I'd never allow it to happen more than once because perception becomes reality if you don't control the outcome.
It wasn't my intent to flame Airkewld in this thread but simply point out my experience with the two products and companies. I knew you'd show up eventually and do exactly what you did but it doesn't change the actual experience I had with the product. What sucks for you is that when I contacted your company, I received replies that didn't actually solve my problem - which is a problem for me. Customer service should solve problems, not exacerbate them.
I'm not going to post the customer service issues I experienced in this thread - I don't feel that's fair to your company and I don't want this thread any further off track. |
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ataraxia
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Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:13 am Post subject: |
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| Airkewld wrote: |
| ataraxia wrote: |
Airkewld kit: Using 10 washers per spindle to properly space the calipers on the supplied brackets (this one pissed me off the most):
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This does not look like the supplied hardware in the kit. Did you use different hardware? |
I used everything that came in the kit AND bought additional washers via Fastenal to center the caliper on the rotor. The bolts are those supplied by Airkewld. |
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| Airkewld wrote: |
| ataraxia wrote: |
1. Yes -although the Airkewld kit requires the threads to be drilled out on one hole due to the hardware they use. You will only learn of this when you read the installation instructions on their website because they don't include instructions with the brake kit when they ship it to you.
2. The CSP is a floating single piston modified GM caliper. The Airkewld uses a Wilwood DynaPro Single caliper. |
About a month ago we started adding directions to the kits. Even though we supply PDF links in the confirmation email, this has been a huge request. We are now supplying them.
CSP uses a single piston caliper, Airkewld uses a 2 piston caliper, the product name is deceiving. |
My original information is incorrect: The Airkewld kit requires that BOTH steer arm bolt holes have the threads drilled out-permanently altering the spindle. |
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Airkewld
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Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3152
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| ataraxia wrote: |
If it happens more than once, it's not 'random' or maybe we work in different realms of 'quality' and 'customer service'. In my world - I'd never allow it to happen more than once because perception becomes reality if you don't control the outcome.
It wasn't my intent to flame Airkewld in this thread but simply point out my experience with the two products and companies. I knew you'd show up eventually and do exactly what you did but it doesn't change the actual experience I had with the product.
I'm not going to post the customer service issues I experienced in this thread - I don't feel that's fair to your company and I don't want this thread any further off track. |
Let me state, I am not taking this a flame job. I am here to provide assistance and information as I can.
Everyone thinks differently. Quality is different to every single person with some similarities. Customer Service is different because people think that means so many different things. Understanding all the differences and making the purchasing, installing and enjoying experiences exceptional or as close as possible is where we want to go.
So Josh, how is it fair to create a thread by comparison if you are not using all the supplied parts? Customer service is part of the comparison, correct? Or should it be? I think it should be.
I am here to help, not cause problems. Please don't think that this is Airkewld defending it's product and more of an extension of what we continually do in helping our clients.
Please email the correspondence to [email protected] so we can look over it and see how we didn't solve your questions and concerns. We appreciate it.
_________________
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View our Industry Leading Products - https://www.airkewld.com/Products-s/2322.htm
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ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| Airkewld wrote: |
| ataraxia wrote: |
If it happens more than once, it's not 'random' or maybe we work in different realms of 'quality' and 'customer service'. In my world - I'd never allow it to happen more than once because perception becomes reality if you don't control the outcome.
It wasn't my intent to flame Airkewld in this thread but simply point out my experience with the two products and companies. I knew you'd show up eventually and do exactly what you did but it doesn't change the actual experience I had with the product.
I'm not going to post the customer service issues I experienced in this thread - I don't feel that's fair to your company and I don't want this thread any further off track. |
Let me state, I am not taking this a flame job. I am here to provide assistance and information as I can.
Everyone thinks differently. Quality is different to every single person with some similarities. Customer Service is different because people think that means so many different things. Understanding all the differences and making the purchasing, installing and enjoying experiences exceptional or as close as possible is where we want to go.
So Josh, how is it fair to create a thread by comparison if you are not using all the supplied parts? Customer service is part of the comparison, correct? Or should it be? I think it should be.
I am here to help, not cause problems. Please don't think that this is Airkewld defending it's product and more of an extension of what we continually do in helping our clients.
Please email the correspondence to [email protected] so we can look over it and see how we didn't solve your questions and concerns. We appreciate it. |
Look, it's simple. Customer service exists to help the customer understand the product, order the correct product and resolve issues that the customer encounters when using the product and, if no other solution is suitable, return the product.
Quality is determined by the customer and their specific perception of a product or service. People are different. Maybe some people don't expect solutions when they contact customer service, sure...but then what's the point of contacting the company if you don't want a solution? Maybe your customers are simple in that way.
FYI: I used all of the supplied hardware and found that the thin spacers were not enough to get the caliper centered so I went out and bought more. How is that my failure?
Regarding customer service: CSP answered all of my questions and I was able to install the product the first time without any issues. Airkewld was not able to answer my questions and it took more time to install due to the issues I encountered. I had to find several answers on my own as a result. |
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