| Author |
Message |
ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
|
 Posted: Sun Aug 02, 2015 7:30 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| RocketA wrote: |
The OP has paid $2400 (1369.99 + 1030) plus shipping in brake parts just to run this thread and people are giving him grief?
He's doing a huge service to the community.
At that same time I can't tell if I should laugh or cry that someone has that much disposable income to experiment on brakes!!!!
Oh you 6 volt guys and all your expensive problems!!!! |
I agree wholeheartedly, in that I thought Josh was doing the community a service. I'd never seen pics of either set up, and to have them side by side like that was a great set of oics. You can really seethe difference in the 2 sets of brakes.
Shit happens.  But some people just prefer to cry once when it comes to certain things. To others, no expense is spared. If they want it, they buy it.
As for it being a 6 volt thing, I doubt it. It's more of wanting to run the correct bolt pattern than anything, as wide 5 just screams early VW, while 4 lug or Porsche pattern scram late model.  |
I figured no one had seen the two kits compared and that it would be interesting for people to see. There isn't a kit that's 100% perfect and that was the point. Some things will work for some people while others may not like them. It was all supposed to be open to Q&A. I may have gotten the CSP bracket material incorrect initially. I tested it with a magnet once mounted and the magnet stuck to it strongly - leading me to believe it's steel. If it's aluminum, I'm open to that correction.
If I decided to 'cheap out' on a part of my restoration it sure as shit isn't going to be on the brakes.
It's not a 6 volt or 12 volt thing. It's about getting it right and doing it right.
Last edited by ataraxia on Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
gregson1
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2004
Posts: 464
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:43 am Post subject: |
|
|
The caliper brackets in my CSP kit are made of steel, about 10mm thick. They are heavy. As mentioned previously, they escaped the blister pack in shipping.
it's been pointed out before that the CSP kit is heavy. I don't know how it compares to the original brakes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 6:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| gregson1 wrote: |
The caliper brackets in my CSP kit are made of steel, about 10mm thick. They are heavy. As mentioned previously, they escaped the blister pack in shipping.
it's been pointed out before that the CSP kit is heavy. I don't know how it compares to the original brakes. |
Is it magnetic when unmounted? I didn't check until it was bolted to the spindle. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
gregson1
Samba Member
Joined: December 13, 2004
Posts: 464
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Yes, quite magnetic. There's a '311 L' stamped on one side and a 'C' stamped on the other. It also has a nice 'ring' to it when tapped. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 7:14 am Post subject: |
|
|
| gregson1 wrote: |
| Yes, quite magnetic. There's a '311 L' stamped on one side and a 'C' stamped on the other. It also has a nice 'ring' to it when tapped. |
Thanks for confirming. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:08 am Post subject: |
|
|
| gregson1 wrote: |
The caliper brackets in my CSP kit are made of steel, about 10mm thick. They are heavy. As mentioned previously, they escaped the blister pack in shipping.
it's been pointed out before that the CSP kit is heavy. I don't know how it compares to the original brakes. |
Regarding weight: The shipping weight of mine was 59# and I weighed the complete spindle with steering arm - without ball joints or tie rods - at 32# each.
I'd like to know the weight of the stock set up - the drum and shoes are approximately 20# so I'm guessing that the disc set up is about 5# heavier per side. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3150
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ataraxia wrote: |
| [If a customer can't install a brake kit with the provided instructions, either the instructions are insufficient, there's an issue with the product or the customer isn't smart enough to do the job. |
A well respected Samba member TRAM wrote the tutorial and submitted the pictures for our Type 3 kit several years ago. He did a quality job and was very methodical with his tech and specifics in the tutorial. I back him and his tutorial to be clear and sufficient for most with out reason to think otherwise. But brakes are for safety, so he and I both recommend a qualified brake specialist to look over the installation after it is done.
_________________
TheSamba members-only discount - Samba24
Win a FREE Chassis Rebuild - https://airkewld.co/WinAChassis
Learn from a PRO on Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/Airkewld
FAQ - https://airkewld.co/FAQ
View our Industry Leading Products - https://www.airkewld.com/Products-s/2322.htm
We made a iPhone Ringtone with a Classic VW Turbo Engine - https://airkewld.co/RingtoneTurbo
YouTube Channel - https://airkewld.co/SubSamba |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22407
Location: Kimball, Mi
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 9:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ataraxia wrote: |
I figured no one had seen the two kits compared and that it would be interesting for people to see. There isn't a kit that's 100% perfect and that was the point. Some things will work for some people while others may not like them. It was all supposed to be open to Q&A. |
Personally I'm glad you posted them up side by side so we can see the differences. I do agree that no kit is 100% perfect, and being able to point out the differences is a good point. I think if Airkewld had made their own caliper bracket that had a step down/offset (to eliminate the washer stack), it would have made it a better kit. But, they didn't, so you're stuck with the washers. Like you pointed out on the caliper mounting holes, needing to be opened for bolt clearance, this is another thing I don't care for. A little QC would go a long way on preventing this kind of issue (we used to inspect all incoming parts at a place I worked, and those that didn't pass were put in a pile for review). Something like that though, could have been reamed before sending it out to the customer. It's little things like that, that put off the customer. 
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Bobnotch
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2003
Posts: 22407
Location: Kimball, Mi
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:20 am Post subject: |
|
|
| ataraxia wrote: |
My original information is incorrect: The Airkewld kit requires that BOTH steer arm bolt holes have the threads drilled out-permanently altering the spindle. |
This tells me that it's not a "true bolt on" part. A true bolt on part wouldn't alter in anyway the original part accepting the new parts. 
_________________
Bob 65 Notch S with Sunroof
71 Notch ...aka Krunchy; build pics here;
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=249390 -been busy working
64 T-34 Ghia...aka Wolfie, under construction... http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=412120
| Tram wrote: |
| "Friends are God's way of apologizing for relatives." |
| Tram wrote: |
| People keep confusing "restored" and "restroyed". |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3150
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| ataraxia wrote: |
My original information is incorrect: The Airkewld kit requires that BOTH steer arm bolt holes have the threads drilled out-permanently altering the spindle. |
This tells me that it's not a "true bolt on" part. A true bolt on part wouldn't alter in anyway the original part accepting the new parts. |
Tram and I discussed this back in the day. You can thread the entire bolt through the two pieces and add a lock nut on the back for security purposes. So it can be bolted on, if you needed it to be.
_________________
TheSamba members-only discount - Samba24
Win a FREE Chassis Rebuild - https://airkewld.co/WinAChassis
Learn from a PRO on Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/Airkewld
FAQ - https://airkewld.co/FAQ
View our Industry Leading Products - https://www.airkewld.com/Products-s/2322.htm
We made a iPhone Ringtone with a Classic VW Turbo Engine - https://airkewld.co/RingtoneTurbo
YouTube Channel - https://airkewld.co/SubSamba |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 10:54 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Airkewld wrote: |
| ataraxia wrote: |
| [If a customer can't install a brake kit with the provided instructions, either the instructions are insufficient, there's an issue with the product or the customer isn't smart enough to do the job. |
A well respected Samba member TRAM wrote the tutorial and submitted the pictures for our Type 3 kit several years ago. He did a quality job and was very methodical with his tech and specifics in the tutorial. I back him and his tutorial to be clear and sufficient for most with out reason to think otherwise. But brakes are for safety, so he and I both recommend a qualified brake specialist to look over the installation after it is done. |
Hi Pete:
I just want to clarify a few things about this:
Here's the original thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=238063&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
On Page 9 I wrote:
The final outcome was that I wrote up a tutorial on how to install them, line everything up, torque them, etc. and shot all the info with pictures to Pete a couple years ago. I haven't really gotten any feedback from Pete on whether the run- through and tutorial helped solve what seemed to be installer issues with the kit or not. The kit did add some offset to the tracking, and at that time Pete said he was working on an upgrade that would overcome that. I also pointed out a few minor glitches that I felt needed refinement, but nothing that should derail the project.
They're Wilwood parts, and the quality of things overall seemed to be pretty damn good, in my opinion, but with some small things that needed to be addressed. The biggest things that bugged me were the 10mm or so of added track and some minor fastener issues. That may have been worked out- like I said, I know for sure Pete was working to get the offset issue resolved.
I thought the product had a lot of potential then. I think it has a lot of potential now.
However, I made a bunch of recommendations to you on how to improve and simplify the product back in 2008, but I see that this OP is battling the same issues that I thought would be sticking points for you then.
The fact that this OP found the Airkewld system a battle that he finally gave up on but was able to buy this other kit and get it done speaks volumes. It's a wake up call in that with some relatively minor tweaks to your kit you can have something equally easier or maybe even more so. You are entirely capable of doing this and if you do, I am certain the Type 3 community will rally behind you and buy your product.
Re-design it with the criticism here in mind and strive to overcome and simplify the obstacles.
It's tough not to feel defensive when your products that you are rightly proud of come in for sometimes harsh criticism. It's nothing personal- what does make it personal is when you push back too hard and make your customer feel like an idiot (not that I am saying this is what you are doing, but I think you see my point).
Instead, I would ask "Fair enough- what do you think we could do to eliminate the issues you are having with our kit?" because someone out there will tell you something that will be the exact correct and simple solution. This helps you provide a more user friendly product.
I didn't have a lot of issues building the kit because this is my line of work- and despite my rep as a "stock Nazi" I am actually adapting things all the time... for example, right now I am close to wrapping up installation of a 1983 Mercedes 240D engine coupled with a 1980s 5 speed into a 1967 200D with a 4 speed and striving to make it look as if it could have come from the Mercedes factory just like this.
BUT- I am not the audience you are playing to. You're playing to people who are handy with wrenches, diagnosis, and repair but you can't expect the average Type 3 owner to look at a stumbling block with a product and instantly visualize a workaround that fixes things. That's the job of the product designer and not the consumer or end user.
It's all about finish work. For example, stacked washers might do the job perfectly fine, but they look amateurish and make the setup look sketchy. Why not simply have the correct spacers made and welded to the bracket?
Again, this isn't criticism as much as just observation from my anal German OCD point of view.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Airkewld wrote: |
| Bobnotch wrote: |
| ataraxia wrote: |
My original information is incorrect: The Airkewld kit requires that BOTH steer arm bolt holes have the threads drilled out-permanently altering the spindle. |
This tells me that it's not a "true bolt on" part. A true bolt on part wouldn't alter in anyway the original part accepting the new parts. |
Tram and I discussed this back in the day. You can thread the entire bolt through the two pieces and add a lock nut on the back for security purposes. So it can be bolted on, if you needed it to be. |
Based on the instructions, it's not a true bolt on part.
From Airkewld's website:
*NOTE: As part of the preparation you'll need to drill out the threads in the spindle assembly where the steering knuckle attaches (upper slightly recessed holes in illustration "Brakes 1") You'll need a drill press and a 9mm titanium or cobalt drill bit. IT IS IMPORTANT that this be drilled straight- If you lack the equipment for this any machine shop should be able to do it quickly. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3150
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 11:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Tram wrote: |
Hi Pete:
I just want to clarify a few things about this:
Here's the original thread:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=238063&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
On Page 9 I wrote:
The final outcome was that I wrote up a tutorial on how to install them, line everything up, torque them, etc. and shot all the info with pictures to Pete a couple years ago. I haven't really gotten any feedback from Pete on whether the run- through and tutorial helped solve what seemed to be installer issues with the kit or not. The kit did add some offset to the tracking, and at that time Pete said he was working on an upgrade that would overcome that. I also pointed out a few minor glitches that I felt needed refinement, but nothing that should derail the project.
They're Wilwood parts, and the quality of things overall seemed to be pretty damn good, in my opinion, but with some small things that needed to be addressed. The biggest things that bugged me were the 10mm or so of added track and some minor fastener issues. That may have been worked out- like I said, I know for sure Pete was working to get the offset issue resolved.
I thought the product had a lot of potential then. I think it has a lot of potential now.
However, I made a bunch of recommendations to you on how to improve and simplify the product back in 2008, but I see that this OP is battling the same issues that I thought would be sticking points for you then.
The fact that this OP found the Airkewld system a battle that he finally gave up on but was able to buy this other kit and get it done speaks volumes. It's a wake up call in that with some relatively minor tweaks to your kit you can have something equally easier or maybe even more so. You are entirely capable of doing this and if you do, I am certain the Type 3 community will rally behind you and buy your product.
Re-design it with the criticism here in mind and strive to overcome and simplify the obstacles.
It's tough not to feel defensive when your products that you are rightly proud of come in for sometimes harsh criticism. It's nothing personal- what does make it personal is when you push back too hard and make your customer feel like an idiot (not that I am saying this is what you are doing, but I think you see my point).
Instead, I would ask "Fair enough- what do you think we could do to eliminate the issues you are having with our kit?" because someone out there will tell you something that will be the exact correct and simple solution. This helps you provide a more user friendly product.
I didn't have a lot of issues building the kit because this is my line of work- and despite my rep as a "stock Nazi" I am actually adapting things all the time... for example, right now I am close to wrapping up installation of a 1983 Mercedes 240D engine coupled with a 1980s 5 speed into a 1967 200D with a 4 speed and striving to make it look as if it could have come from the Mercedes factory just like this.
BUT- I am not the audience you are playing to. You're playing to people who are handy with wrenches, diagnosis, and repair but you can't expect the average Type 3 owner to look at a stumbling block with a product and instantly visualize a workaround that fixes things. That's the job of the product designer and not the consumer or end user.
It's all about finish work. For example, stacked washers might do the job perfectly fine, but they look amateurish and make the setup look sketchy. Why not simply have the correct spacers made and welded to the bracket?
Again, this isn't criticism as much as just observation from my anal German OCD point of view. |
Thanks Tram for coming in to the conversation.
In the initial write up, he did not state that he gave up with the Airkewld kit. He stated things that he did not particularly like. All I did was filled in the blanks with questions and tried to provide assistance on an online forum. Looking back, I won't do that again.
His critics were specific to the thought that the studs were too long, the stacks of washers he had to use in his installation and that the bolt did not slide into the caliper.
As the original designer of the kit, I stated in both email and in the forum what "I felt" was an easy fix of just threading the bolt in the caliper and it will clean it out. It is a 10mm hole so it should be just fine. Looking back, I should just put that in the tutorial so that it is not a unknown possibility that this can happen. I can tell you, I personally have put 200 or so sets of brakes on PRObuilt beams and I had to thread the bolt into maybe 3 calipers. So out of estimated 400 calipers I had to do this. But lesson learned, I will edit the install article to reflect that.
The washers/spacers, did not look like the versions we provide. Which later it was said that he supplied them. Because the variance in coatings, calipers, we do it this way. If a client does not like this in any way, I am okay with a return of the product. What I have eliminated it a machined bracket that does not allow for spacing and the receipt of calls that it doesn't fit after we did this or did that. That client can still install them. I have even seen client mic the spacers needed and machine one to fit in that space. Perfect. But it is a guarantee that, each vehicle will be different, I assure you, they are not the same.
I apologize again if anyone thought I was trying to sell anything or state that the OP was wrong in the installation. It was the first time in a real long time that I have posted on the samba regarding our products and immediately it was thought as I was doing that. I was trying to help and assist a client with their installation or the straightening of the facts that were specified in the comparison. Nothing more.
_________________
TheSamba members-only discount - Samba24
Win a FREE Chassis Rebuild - https://airkewld.co/WinAChassis
Learn from a PRO on Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/Airkewld
FAQ - https://airkewld.co/FAQ
View our Industry Leading Products - https://www.airkewld.com/Products-s/2322.htm
We made a iPhone Ringtone with a Classic VW Turbo Engine - https://airkewld.co/RingtoneTurbo
YouTube Channel - https://airkewld.co/SubSamba |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tram
Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003
Posts: 22711
Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
There's a pretty simple solution to all this that can solve the issues.
If I were Airkewld, I would look at the price spread between my product and the competition. I believe Josh said the competitor's product was $250 more and "worth it". There's lots of opportunity in that statement.
If that is the case, here is what I would do:
I'd either buy several sets of T3 spindles and build my brake kits on them and offer the kits completely assembled and ready to go on a spindle exchange basis or I would have my customer ship their spindles in, build them, and ship them out. You could hire and train somebody to do this, pay them $30 to do it, charge the buyer another $75, and still beat the competition while solving all the issues for you and your customers while simultaneously supplying a product that kills your competition for ease of installation while increasing your net profit on the product.
Sounds like a "win- win" to me.
_________________
Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
| Bryan67 wrote: |
| Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:34 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Airkewld wrote: |
In the initial write up, he did not state that he gave up with the Airkewld kit. He stated things that he did not particularly like.
His critics were specific to the thought that the studs were too long, the stacks of washers he had to use in his installation and that the bolt did not slide into the caliper. |
The original intent of the thread was to compare the two kits - not create negative publicity for your company. If anything, this was a sign for you to act as a business owner. You had a prime opportunity to resolve the issue offline via PM: "Hey Josh, This is Pete, I noticed you have some issues with our product - how can I help resolve them?" - the start of repairing my perception of your company. I would have come back to the thread and stated that a remedy was in process with Airkewld. I probably would have bought more stuff from you since I'm restoring two cars.
Instead, you chose to anonymously call me out on the forum - starting a fire by insisting that I post up email correspondence with your staff in the thread, insinuating that I 'modified' the kit and reply with sarcasm, among other things.
In all honesty, I think the kit has a ton of potential. It's nicely designed with a few very minor flaws - maybe the same things identified by the guy who wrote your instructions 7 years ago. There are a few things about your kit that I like better than the CSP kit...but I never got to that part.
| Airkewld wrote: |
| As the original designer of the kit, I stated in both email and in the forum what "I felt" was an easy fix of just threading the bolt in the caliper and it will clean it out. It is a 10mm hole so it should be just fine. Looking back, I should just put that in the tutorial so that it is not a unknown possibility that this can happen. |
A little QC goes a long way toward improving customer perception of quality and professionalism. It may not be a big deal to you but will your customer notice? Yes, they will. I certainly noticed it when I installed the CSP kit.
| Airkewld wrote: |
| The washers/spacers, did not look like the versions we provide. Which later it was said that he supplied them. Because the variance in coatings, calipers, we do it this way. If a client does not like this in any way, I am okay with a return of the product. What I have eliminated it a machined bracket that does not allow for spacing and the receipt of calls that it doesn't fit after we did this or did that. That client can still install them. I have even seen client mic the spacers needed and machine one to fit in that space. Perfect. But it is a guarantee that, each vehicle will be different, I assure you, they are not the same. |
I supplied SOME of the washers, not all of them, they are all the same thickness - how do I know? The parts you supplied are a hair larger in diameter. 10 washers as spacers on a premium product is unacceptable to me - maybe your other customers don't care. I mocked both kits up on two sets of spindles - one NOS set with powder coat and one cleaned used set without powder coat - same results with both spindles. I didn't take pictures or video because I didn't expect that the manufacturer would put me on the defense in a public forum. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Tram wrote: |
There's a pretty simple solution to all this that can solve the issues.
If I were Airkewld, I would look at the price spread between my product and the competition. I believe Josh said the competitor's product was $250 more and "worth it". There's lots of opportunity in that statement.
If that is the case, here is what I would do:
I'd either buy several sets of T3 spindles and build my brake kits on them and offer the kits completely assembled and ready to go on a spindle exchange basis or I would have my customer ship their spindles in, build them, and ship them out. You could hire and train somebody to do this, pay them $30 to do it, charge the buyer another $75, and still beat the competition while solving all the issues for you and your customers while simultaneously supplying a product that kills your competition for ease of installation while increasing your net profit on the product.
Sounds like a "win- win" to me. |
Excellent idea. I would have paid for that service...because I'm short on time. In all reality, people would pay MORE for a bolt on solution because the perception of value is greater as long as the spacer/washer issue is resolved. Make the right part fit the right way.
The price difference is calculated at 'landed cost' and both kits were purchased while on sale. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3150
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 12:45 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ataraxia wrote: |
| Airkewld wrote: |
In the initial write up, he did not state that he gave up with the Airkewld kit. He stated things that he did not particularly like.
His critics were specific to the thought that the studs were too long, the stacks of washers he had to use in his installation and that the bolt did not slide into the caliper. |
The original intent of the thread was to compare the two kits - not create negative publicity for your company. If anything, this was a sign for you to act as a business owner. You had a prime opportunity to resolve the issue offline via PM: "Hey Josh, This is Pete, I noticed you have some issues with our product - how can I help resolve them?" - the start of repairing my perception of your company. I would have come back to the thread and stated that a remedy was in process with Airkewld. I probably would have bought more stuff from you since I'm restoring two cars.
Instead, you chose to anonymously call me out on the forum - starting a fire by insisting that I post up email correspondence with your staff in the thread, insinuating that I 'modified' the kit and reply with sarcasm, among other things.
In all honesty, I think the kit has a ton of potential. It's nicely designed with a few very minor flaws - maybe the same things identified by the guy who wrote your instructions 7 years ago. There are a few things about your kit that I like better than the CSP kit...but I never got to that part.
| Airkewld wrote: |
| As the original designer of the kit, I stated in both email and in the forum what "I felt" was an easy fix of just threading the bolt in the caliper and it will clean it out. It is a 10mm hole so it should be just fine. Looking back, I should just put that in the tutorial so that it is not a unknown possibility that this can happen. |
A little QC goes a long way toward improving customer perception of quality and professionalism. It may not be a big deal to you but will your customer notice? Yes, they will. I certainly noticed it when I installed the CSP kit.
| Airkewld wrote: |
| The washers/spacers, did not look like the versions we provide. Which later it was said that he supplied them. Because the variance in coatings, calipers, we do it this way. If a client does not like this in any way, I am okay with a return of the product. What I have eliminated it a machined bracket that does not allow for spacing and the receipt of calls that it doesn't fit after we did this or did that. That client can still install them. I have even seen client mic the spacers needed and machine one to fit in that space. Perfect. But it is a guarantee that, each vehicle will be different, I assure you, they are not the same. |
I supplied SOME of the washers, not all of them, they are all the same thickness - how do I know? The parts you supplied are a hair larger in diameter. 10 washers as spacers on a premium product is unacceptable to me - maybe your other customers don't care. I mocked both kits up on two sets of spindles - one NOS set with powder coat and one cleaned used set without powder coat - same results with both spindles. I didn't take pictures or video because I didn't expect that the manufacturer would put me on the defense in a public forum. |
Please Josh, do both of us a favor. Re-read my comments. I never called you out. I never took it as negativity, i never said you were incompetent or anything. I specifically asked questions, you flipped a switch and said,
| Quote: |
Why not quality check your supplier before you ship to the customer vs. blame your supplier?
Provide a solution - not another issue to your customer. |
| Quote: |
| The hardware was all over the place in the box and one of the rotors had a ding in the end. I didn't open the box for two months and given the way my inquiries have been handled by your company, I didn't bother. That experience was repeated when I contacted asking about the kit specifics. |
I specifically asked
| Quote: |
| Whoa, please elaborate on how your inquires were handled. |
You then replied
| Quote: |
It's too late for me to be upset...I'm stuck with it.
If your supplier ships product to you that YOU KNOW has a potential issue-open the box, check/correct the issue and include with your product. It just makes your company look bad that you've passed this along to the customer. |
I replied
| Quote: |
I never said you were stuck with anything, please don't feed into something that is not reality.
I also stated that is was random, not something that happens with all calipers.
Sucks for both of us, that it happened to you, along with a comparison of a competitor on a national forum. Does this make our company look bad? IMO, no. It allows us to further improve as a company.
If you have damages on a product, we handled it. If you have issues, we handle it. I would like to see the inquires that were made to ensure it doesn't happen again. |
Don't make it look like called you out by that. It's the internet. Written words can be perceived any which way. But never did I throw you under the bus. Hence why I asked you not to be upset, I was only trying to help.
I understand the way you would of liked it to be handled. I chose one path, you would have liked it another. Here we are, no beers in front of us, no cruising or enjoying each others company. It did not work out for either of us and my apology can get any larger.
_________________
TheSamba members-only discount - Samba24
Win a FREE Chassis Rebuild - https://airkewld.co/WinAChassis
Learn from a PRO on Patreon - https://www.patreon.com/Airkewld
FAQ - https://airkewld.co/FAQ
View our Industry Leading Products - https://www.airkewld.com/Products-s/2322.htm
We made a iPhone Ringtone with a Classic VW Turbo Engine - https://airkewld.co/RingtoneTurbo
YouTube Channel - https://airkewld.co/SubSamba |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
|
| Posted: Mon Aug 03, 2015 8:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Getting back on track; I updated the initial post with information about each kit as I received them and pieces of information shared throughout the thread thus far. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Erik G
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2002
Posts: 13269
Location: Tejas!
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 2:59 am Post subject: |
|
|
Since you asked earlier, if the bearings are the same as original, the timken part numbers are set1 and set4 races and tapered bearings
how many people have these brakes on otherwise stock original front ends? I'd almost be willing to bet you're the only one, besides the prototype Tram car. In order to get instructions and details right, you'd have to actually do an instal
Thanks dude for posting this up. Sucks about the early wheels for Greg.
_________________
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ataraxia
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 4504
Location: Illinois
|
| Posted: Tue Aug 04, 2015 5:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Erik G wrote: |
Since you asked earlier, if the bearings are the same as original, the timken part numbers are set1 and set4 races and tapered bearings
how many people have these brakes on otherwise stock original front ends? I'd almost be willing to bet you're the only one, besides the prototype Tram car. In order to get instructions and details right, you'd have to actually do an instal
Thanks dude for posting this up. Sucks about the early wheels for Greg. |
The thing I wasn't sure of was the wheel seal but Pete provided the information for his kit and the CSP looks to be the same. I've got three sets of the Timken bearings in my cabinet - Mark (W1K1) posted the numbers up in another thread a while back.
I don't know of anyone in the Type 3 community that's running Airkewld's front disc brakes on their car, let alone on stock suspension/wheels. There are probably a lot more people running disc brakes on stock wheels but I'd guess most of them are using the EMPI/AC Industries kit due to cost. I've sold two of those kits from my cars because I wanted something that was a 'bolt on' solution with drum spindles. I can remove the CSP kit and go back to stock.
Last edited by ataraxia on Tue Aug 04, 2015 11:05 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
