Coil over front beams

[griffs68]

thank you again you seem to be full of a vast amount of knowledge on these things

[dustymojave]

You're welcome. There are those who feel I'm full of something else, but oh well...

_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[griffs68]

Okay now I have both my beam and arms here I need to get bushings for the beam how do I know what size to buy?

[Hnoroian]

[griffs68]

bakersfield metal fab off of district.
I know dave real well from barts parts, great guy.
I have not dealt much with german dreams.

[griffs68]

Well I dropped off the front trailing arms today at the powder coaters. after cleaning out the rusted threads.

Got my delrin bushings for the beam in. Have not installed them into the beam yet due to the paint/ gunk I need to clean out of the beam first.

Dusty,
Do you still suggust using FOA or are they not worth the hassle you can get KINGS for about 500 each with springs and FOX for 320 without springs.
I suppose any and or all will do the job and again this is a sand only toy

[dustymojave]

For a long time I was hearing only good stuff about F-O-A from folks who had them. Lately I've heard some people who were unhappy with their F-O-A shocks. But I'm not sure if it's truly troubles with the shocks, or people who are snobs about brand names. I haven't heard any consistent complaints, so I'm inclined to think it's people who've been told that because they cost less that they're no good. The offroad world is full of people who think that more expensive absolutely means that it's better. It aint always true.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[PhillipM]

People seemed really happy with them initially, but like you say, there's some other stories coming out about the later ones - I look at a car over here running a set a year or so ago, and he'd had issues where he just could not get them to consistantly match each other on the same stacks - after about a year he binned them and went back to Fox.

[griffs68]

okay so i picked up some 8" travel fox 2.0 coil overs with springs on them. removed the springs and from what I can tell I have older hyper coil springs (D820 & Z230) I do Believe that these are older. Anyone have any ideas what they are. Both are 8 inches free length 2.5 I.D. coils. I think the valving on the shocks is 45/75 at least those are the numbers etched into the lower spring mount

[griffs68]

Okay so I got the springs to a shop that measured the rates for me seems like I have a set of 200 springs and a set of 250 springs both with 8 inch free lengths. I do not think that these will work for the rear. but any information will help

[griffs68]

finally got around to getting time to get to work on this project. DUSTY I do have a question for you. it seems that my swing arm trans has about 3 inches of down travel from level axle tubes and close to 7 of up travel before the axle tubes hit the frame. on the down stroke the axles and binding on the side gears of the transmission it seems. why is there so much more up travel then down. wouldn't I want the tubes level with about the same up and down travel or would I need to have some up angle on the axle tubes at ride hieght

[dustymojave]

To a swingaxle transaxle and axles, up or down is the same. Typically a stock swingaxle car will get about 9" of travel between factory spring plate stops. The stock rubber snubber takes away some of that bump travel.

10" of total travel (your 3" down + 7" up) is a little more than usual swingaxle. It's too much for a swingaxle. It's likely to tear up the side gears. Hi Jumper wasn't meaning for the frame be the limit to the wheel travel when they designed the frame. They designed it to clear reasonable travel. They intended those coilover shocks that are on it or the Marv Shaw air shocks often found on these frames which have similar extended and compressed lengths to provide both upper and lower wheel travel limits.

You could install longer rear shocks if you want. But the upper mounts would need to be built new. I wouldn't recommend more than 9" of total travel in whatever you go with. 4" of droop from horizontal axles is probably the most you should go with. But that will allow the rear wheels to get into trouble with "jacking". 8" total travel with 3" droop from horizontal is probably better.

Since the lower shock mounts are right on the top of the axle housing itself, the travel of the shock will be the travel of the suspension. So you don't need any more than 8" of shock travel. A pair of 8" x 2" King or Fox or Sway-A-Way, or F-O-A shocks with remote reservoirs would be an improvement on the current shocks and about all the improvement it can stand short of converting to an IRS setup. Looking into the shocks the above companies offer for Class 9 racers might be helpful.

PS... Any new upper shock mounts should be built so the shock mount bolts are at a 45 to the trailing arm.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[griffs68]

Thanks Dusty, I purchased a set of 8 inch travel foxes for the rear already so I am good on those. By 45* offset for the bolt what do you mean. I was thinking about taking a little bit of angle out of the shock with the top mount being a little bit more towards the wheel to clear the frame. so with the up travel should I work a set of simple rubber/ poly bump stops into the build and have them hit axle tube?

[dustymojave]

The rear suspension pivots in 2 places on each side.

One pivot point is the torsion bar inside the torsion housing. So the theoretical pivot axis is the center of the torsion bar at the spring plate. In your buggy with the trailing arms instead of spring plates and torsion bars, that pivot is obviously at the front end of the trailing arm.

The other pivot point is at the axle joint at the side of the transaxle.

So the suspension pivots on a line from one point to the other. This line is at a near 45° angle to the centerline of the car. The spring plates are basically parallel to the centerline of the car, and their line is obvious when you are working on that side of the suspension. Since the suspension pivots on that line, the shock mount bolts should be parallel to that pivot line so the shock ends work and allow things to move. If the bolts are parallel or perpendicular to the trailing arms (or spring plates), movement of the suspension will cause binding of the shock ends and shafts. EVEN with Heims.
_________________
Richard
Offroading VW based cars since 1965
Tech Inspection 1963 - 2012 SCCA/SCORE/HDRA/MORE/MDR +
Retired from building Bajas, Fiberglass Buggies and Rails in the Mojave Desert. Also Sprints & Midgets, Dry Lakes, Road Race cars. All types New and Vintage
SoCalBajas Member
Kicked Cancer's A$$...1st and 2nd round...Fight ain't over yet.

[griffs68]

the original lower shock mounts are at a 45* on the axle so what I believe you are saying is I need to keep the same relative angle for the top mounts.

[PhillipM]

Pretty much, try and keep your heims doing as little articulation as you can to keep them within there limits. You'll get a bit of angle change as they cycle anyway (not a bad thing, means they don't wear a track in the ball)

[dustymojave]

[jsturtlebuggy]

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=1855600

This is a buggy for sale in the classifies that has different rear coil over with upper mount in a different place. (small pictures)
Chassis sure looks like a Hi-Jumper.
May give you an idea for yours.
_________________
Joseph
Fair Oaks/Orangevale, CA
Elrod Motorsports
Motion Tire Motorsports
Having fun with Dune Buggies since 1970
Into Volkswagens since 1960

[dustymojave]

[griffs68]

should I fab in some bump stops?