Non-returning or sticky brake pedal

vwwestyman

What all is supposed to cause the brake pedal to return when it is released?

In my '73, it has started to be very slow to return to the resting position. The brakes are holding until it has returned. (and slowly releasing as it returns.)

I can pull it up with my foot to the resting position.

Related, I think, is that the feel while pressing the brake pedal seems weird. Hard to describe, almost notchy I guess. So it seems like the resistance is there either direction (pushing or releasing).

For a temporary measure, I hooked a bungee cord to the brake lever underneath and the bumper and this helps return the pedal more quickly and makes the bus a little more driveable.

I've been hosing the area of the return spring with penetrating oil the past couple days but no improvement yet.

The master cylinder is new, as are the front hoses and a caliper that was sticky. I think I ended up replacing the rear cylinders but I don't remember for sure at the moment...

In the '73 Thing I'm working on, the brake pedal also returns slowly. In it, the master cylinder isn't even installed at the moment so I know the problem is likely in the pedal cluster. Working that one with my hand feels similar to the symptoms the bus is now showing, so I'm thinking maybe I have some corrosion in the pivot point where the brake pedal attaches to the rod.

Is the spring at the pivot point in those the only real thing that is supposed to return the brake pedal? (With the Thing, I was thinking it might work better when I get the master cylinder installed but now I'm not sure.)

Maybe all they need is to be pulled apart and greased? Other things to check?
_________________
Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

Malokin Martin · Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:10 pm Post subject:

Via pure laziness I have been dealing with this for a year and would like to know as well. I've gotten so used to pulling it back with my toe it's kind of part of driving at this point.

Zeitgeist 13 · Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:14 pm Post subject:

I'm currently in the middle of this same misadventure with a '77 van. The calipers were both seized and the pedal was sticking in the down position. I lubed the pivot, but the pedal was still sticking, so then I pulled the booster. I found that the booster was stiff, so I peeled back the boots and sprayed silicone in there, and then worked the actuator rod in and out until there was smooth non-sticky operation.
_________________
Casey--

'89 Bluestar ALH w/12mm Waldo pump, PP764 and GT2052
'01 Weekender --> full camper
y u rune klassik?

Tcash · Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 12:48 pm Post subject:

#12 spring is broke, #3 bushing rusted, #25A rusted.
thanks to mayor ratwell

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Good luck
Tcash

kreemoweet · Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 3:45 pm Post subject:

In addition to the pedal/linkage return spring, there are two piston return springs inside the M/C, and a hurkin
big conical return spring in the booster, and maybe more springs in the booster valving. Those are some strong-ass
springs, so you got some serious problems with your brakes somewhere. I don't know if compensating port
blockage in the M/C would prevent piston return like that, but it's worth checking by making sure there's at least
a little play between the pedal linkage and the booster operating rod where they join up.

You could try disconnecting the vacuum line from the booster and seeing if the pedal returns. If it does, then probably the booster valving is shot.
_________________
'67 bug: seized by the authorities
'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities

Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

Tcash · Posted: Mon Aug 10, 2015 8:19 pm Post subject:

I don't know if compensating port blockage in the M/C would prevent piston return.
If this happened the pedal would still return, but the brakes would remain applied. Smoking brakes are the result.
Tcash

vwwestyman · Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:39 pm Post subject:

busdaddy · Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 4:47 pm Post subject:

Drowning the internals of the booster with hydrocarbons isn't a good idea, some of the rubber parts don't like it. But if the previous master already filled it with brake fluid don't get your hopes up that it'll magically heal itself, that stuff corrodes exposed steel parts like the valve faces and seats in there. If it's slow coming up try disconnecting the line from the engine (plug the engine end and expect more foot effort to stop), if it stops dragging on the return you may have found the issue.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

Слава Україні!

vwwestyman · Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:06 pm Post subject:

busdaddy · Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:16 pm Post subject:

No, silicone should be OK unless one of the propellants or solvents in it hurts the rubber.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

Слава Україні!

vwwestyman · Posted: Tue Aug 25, 2015 5:25 pm Post subject:

With the vacuum disconnected at the rear, it drove the same. Once home, I also unhooked it from the front and when pulling the pedal down from below, it still returns slowly.

I guess I'll get some silicone lube and shoot it in the booster from the front and see if that helps at all.
_________________
Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

vwwestyman · Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 5:52 am Post subject:

I looked at several cans of silicone spray at the store yesterday and all but one warned of containing petroleum distillates---the WD-40 brand did not. So I bought that. It did seem to quiet the squealing speedometer in my Thing.

I sprayed it into the front of the boot this morning and worked the pedal from below. It seemed like maybe it was working slightly better/easier... There is a very defined catch as the pedal goes down, and also as the pedal returns. It'll go past the catch as you press the pedal, but the catch is there.

I guess I'll wait and see if the silicone works its way in there a little and frees things up or not.

While I was under the bus, a little kid walking to school stopped and said hi. He said he liked my VWs and he was going to save to buy one when he was 18. He said he was 7, so I told him he'd have time to save! Smile

_________________
Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

Egan Custom Guitars · Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:29 pm Post subject:

I am right now trying to diagnose the exact same problem on my 77 Bay window. I'm very interested to see how you make out with this, I peeled the boot back tonight but realized I do not have silicone spray, so I will wait until tomorrow.

vwwestyman · Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:36 pm Post subject:

Maybe over time it'll work out, but after a couple days the pedal is still sticky and slow to return. The silicone does seem to have improved things, but it certainly isn't back to normal just yet.

Assuming it doesn't fix it, does this mean I'll need to start looking for a booster?
_________________
Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

Egan Custom Guitars · Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:41 pm Post subject:

Oh man, not what I was hoping to hear. I am trying to avoid buying a new booster.

Egan Custom Guitars · Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 8:48 pm Post subject:

Do you hear the idle on the engine change when you get past that "notchy" point? Have you tried driving the van? My brakes basically go 1-2-10 in terms of reaction time when pushing the pedal down.

vwwestyman · Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 5:03 am Post subject:

I do not notice any idle change, and based on when I drove it with the booster disconnected, the booster does indeed boost.

I like the 1-2-10 description of how the brakes work. Mine work similarly to that. The silicone has improved it but it is still notchy for sure.
_________________
Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

vwwestyman · Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 11:21 am Post subject:

So the silicone lube seems to have worked.

I sprayed some one last time before reinstalling the splash pan (didn't really need to be removed to do this, but I also lubed the linkage up front) into the boot where the rod goes into the booster.

At that time, I noted the return most of the way was pretty good, but there was a little bit of a notchyness for the last 1/4 inch or so of travel.

Today I was driving the bus and tested it a bit, and even now that last bit of notchyness seems to be gone and it seems to be working a-ok.

Hopefully the "fix" will last!
_________________
Dave Cook

President, Wild Westerner Club

1978 Champagne Edition Westy, repowered to '97 Jetta TDI
1973 Wild Westerner
My Thing

Amskeptic · Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2015 7:58 pm Post subject:

Don't forget to clean the filter in the front section of the booster as described in the Bentley manual. It provides the atmospheric air (pressure) to release the vacuum boost.
Colin
_________________
www.itinerant-air-cooled.com

Egan Custom Guitars

Hey vwwestyman....are you able to give a description of where you were spraying the silicone lube into? Or even a picture?

Thanks!


Hello! Log in or Register \| Help \| Donate \| Buy Shirts	See all banner ads \| Advertise on TheSamba.com

	Forum Index -> Bay Window Bus	All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time Page: 1, 2 Next
Page 1 of 2