| Author |
Message |
mattlockwood
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2012
Posts: 360
Location: KCMO
|
 Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:51 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| busdaddy wrote: |
| it should come on and stay on for roughly 45 degrees of CW crank rotation past TDC. |
OK, I read this again, and this is exactly what happens when I get the light to go on at the notch and then I rotate the crankshaft 45° clockwise. I was misreading what you were saying |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
mattlockwood
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2012
Posts: 360
Location: KCMO
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:54 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Tcash wrote: |
How about try this Bd. Align the leading edge of the rotor with the notch?
Matt, Did you test the points?
1.Ground the black test light lead.
2.Touch the light to the arm that opens and closes.
3. Points closed light on.
4. Points open light off.
You mentioned the spark at the plug looked different. Can you post a couple of pics of this?
Did you clean or replace your plugs?
Do you have a Ohm meter?
You are going to need a new starter by the time you are done with this.
Tcash |
Points open=light off
Points closed=light on.
I do have an ohm meter
I am unable to get a picture of the spark from the plugs because the spark is so slight that my camera is not catching it |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mattlockwood
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2012
Posts: 360
Location: KCMO
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 12:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I also used the test light on each of the four posts of the distributor cap, and I got a light for each time the rotor past each post. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I read through and have a few comments,
first, open your carb and visually verify that you have fuel in the bowl, enough to raise the float.
second, put your meter on the coil positive side and verify 12+v there while cranking.
third, I know you said it's new, but ohm the rotor out center to tip, don't just listen for the beep, actually check how many ohms it is.
your fuel pump might actually work and you just have it plumbed backwards, it's not intuitively built - fuel tank input is on the bottom, pump output to carburetor is on the top. Pushrod should be 1/2" high off the pump pedestal gasket at its highest.
How fast is your starter working? Are you getting a fast cranking speed, or a slow whuhhh-whuhh-whuhh? Pull the transmission ground strap off, scrub the corrosion out of it with baking soda paste and clean the mating areas with scotchbrite or sandpaper.
Since you're getting a spark, that means your points are working, at least.
Last thing I can think of is ohm the coil out; Bentley has the specs for it but I don't have my Bentley handy. Here are some scans out of the VW Service Manual, for a 1970 bus:
Sorry for the upside-down fuel pump pics, can't figure out how to fix that without re-uploading new scans.
_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
scrivyscriv
Samba Electrician
Joined: October 04, 2011
Posts: 2922
Location: Memphis
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Tcash wrote: |
Best to set it to TDC and drop the dist. in on the notch on the 205T. The dist. cam lobe is said to have a bit of retard on #3 to help with cooling that cylinder.
. |
it does, i have verified 7.5 degrees retard at idle on the 205T #3 wire in the past
_________________
Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mattlockwood
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2012
Posts: 360
Location: KCMO
|
| Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thx for the info, and thx for taking the time to scan, love those old service manuals!
I am bypassing the fuel pump and carb to remove those variables.
And I do have 12v at the coil positive side |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mattlockwood
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2012
Posts: 360
Location: KCMO
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Update: starting my troubleshooting over. Taking it logically, step by step, which I haven't necessarily done.
#1) Compression test: all are around 60 psi. VERY low. Since this is a rebuilt engine, and hasn't been run yet, is this normal? Rings haven't seated yet?
Could be bad equipment too, will have to get another tester to be sure...since they ALL are in the same range of 60, seems odd.
#2) I mentioned this before, and it keeps bugging me. Withe the drive gear installed (engine at #1TDC) the gear seems way off from perpendicular to the case. See the first two photos showing gear position relative to crank pulley.
When I rotate the engine so that the drive gear is where I think it's SUPPOSED to be at #1TDC, the crank pulley is several degrees forward.
This seems wrong to me. I've been told the first position is correct, but all the videos and written info says the second pic of the drive gear is the correct position. All my testing has been done based on the gear in the posn of the first pic.
Do I need to reseat the drive gear? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If you can time your engine to the mark then the position of the distributor drive doesn't matter. If the vacuum can on the dizzy prevents the dizzy from being turned to where you can set the timing correctly, only then you would need to lift and turn the drive.
It is nice if the drive is installed according to the book but not all that necessary. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
telford dorr
Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009
Posts: 3555
Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
To be clear:
The test light is connected from the green coil wire to ground (e.g. across the points. With this connection, the light should illuminate when the points are OPEN.
As you turn the engine CLOCKWISE, as viewed from the rear, the test light should NOT be lit, and as the timing mark on the pulley just crosses the line between the case halves (the case seam), the light should illuminate (indicating that the points just opened). Note: this method works for engines which do not use a DVDA distributor and its matching pulley. If you have either of these, you will want the light transition to occur earlier (e.g. the mark will be left of the case seam), and once running, you will have to time using a strobe type timing light. In your case, it looks like you have a SVDA distributor. Do you know what pulley type you have? SVDA, or DVDA? (The difference is around 12 degrees.)
This test should be done by turning the engine, not by turning the distributor - more sensitive this way.
_________________
'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:08 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| telford dorr wrote: |
To be clear:
The test light is connected from the green coil wire to ground (e.g. across the points. With this connection, the light should illuminate when the points are OPEN.
As you turn the engine CLOCKWISE, as viewed from the rear, the test light should NOT be lit, and as the timing mark on the pulley just crosses the line between the case halves (the case seam), the light should illuminate (indicating that the points just opened). Note: this method works for engines which do not use a DVDA distributor and its matching pulley. If you have either of these, you will want the light transition to occur earlier (e.g. the mark will be left of the case seam), and once running, you will have to time using a strobe type timing light. In your case, it looks like you have a SVDA distributor. Do you know what pulley type you have? SVDA, or DVDA? (The difference is around 12 degrees.)
This test should be done by turning the engine, not by turning the distributor - more sensitive this way. |
Both DVDA and SVDA statically time pretty much exactly the same with the timing set at around 7.5* BTDC. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:12 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Link
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
telford dorr
Samba Member
Joined: March 11, 2009
Posts: 3555
Location: San Diego (Encinitas)
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 5:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Wildthings wrote: |
| Both DVDA and SVDA statically time pretty much exactly the same with the timing set at around 7.5* BTDC. |
While that is correct, the difference is where the mark is located on the pulley. The DVDA pulley typically has the mark at 5 deg ATDC, whereas the SVDA pulley has it at 7.5 deg BTDC. Thus, static timing with a DVDA pulley is problematic, and requires compensation.
Unfortunately, pulleys aren't clearly labeled as to exactly where their marks are, degree-wise. As most engines have had their original components rearranged several times by now, making any assumptions about a specific pulley may be unwise.
My preference is a quality full size degree'd pulley where there is low uncertainty.
_________________
'71 panel, now with FI
'Experience' is the ability to recognize a mistake when you're making it again - Franklin P. Jones
In theory, theory works in practice; in practice, it doesn't - William T. Harbaugh
When you're dead, you don't know you're dead. The pain is only felt by others.
Same thing happens when you're stupid. - Philippe Geluck
More VW electrical at http://telforddorr.com/ (available 9am to 9pm PST) |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
60"psi in all cylinders??
That's going to be hard to get running. Maybe add some oil to the cylinders to try get the compression up
_________________
.ssS! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mattlockwood
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2012
Posts: 360
Location: KCMO
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I'm thinking bad test equipment. Exactly 60 psi on all four seems suspicious to me |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
busdaddy
Samba Member
Joined: February 12, 2004
Posts: 51153
Location: Surrey B.C. Canada, but thinking of Ukraine
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I wouldn't spend too much time worrying about that, even at 60lbs it'll run, could be a weak starter or battery, could be roughly ground valves or non seated rings, could be the throttle wasn't open and the rest of the plugs weren't out.
As WT's says the distibutor drive doesn't matter as long as you can arrange the wires so #1 is in the hole that's over the rotor tip at #1 firing TDC.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.
Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!
Слава Україні! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Wildthings
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 50352
|
| Posted: Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:09 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Abscate wrote: |
60"psi in all cylinders??
That's going to be hard to get running. Maybe add some oil to the cylinders to try get the compression up |
I drove my POS 83 1/2 Vanagon for years with zero compression on the gauge. It would start fine at any temperature above 15*F and had good power and gas mileage. Yours should start just fine with 60 psi of compression across the board.
Did you have the throttle held open, all the plugs removed, and a nice well charged battery. If you valves are out of adjustment that can also cause poor compression. Are you 100% sure you have the cam timing correct? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Hansolo99
Samba Member
Joined: December 04, 2010
Posts: 524
Location: So Cal
|
| Posted: Thu Oct 08, 2015 8:05 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Any luck getting it running? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mattlockwood
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2012
Posts: 360
Location: KCMO
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 10:04 am Post subject: SUCCESS!!! |
|
|
Got it running. Rebuilt the distributor. I think it was shorting out....
Rebuilt the distributor.
Regapped the plugs
Set the timing.
Put the carb back on
Fired right up!!
Thx everyone! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12844
Location: San Jose, California, USA
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 12:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
That is great.
How did you take this pic. I can even read the VW stamped into the drive gear.
Thank you
Tcash |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mattlockwood
Samba Member
Joined: June 15, 2012
Posts: 360
Location: KCMO
|
| Posted: Sat Oct 17, 2015 6:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
iPhone 5 w/a flash  |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
