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lojoma Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2012 Posts: 233 Location: Memphis
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:56 am Post subject: How to know if engine is modified? |
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I have '63 Beetle with a '74 engine. I just bought the car, and the previous owner thought the '74 engine was added about 15 years ago, but it was with another owner.
The car has stock carb but has aluminum body air cleaner, not the stock kind. Also has bolt on valve covers instead of original.
So I'm wondering if these were done for looks or for other reasons...I had read that some of the bolt on valve covers were for modified heads. Are there things to look at that can tell me how stock or not this engine is?
Also, I would like to get a stock air cleaner, but wondered if they used the small one because the larger wouldn't fit. Is this a problem for a '74 engine in a '63 Bug? The manifold does NOT have a vacuum hookup so I wonder if the stock cleaner would even be able to work properly.
Thanks |
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grandpa pete Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2008 Posts: 6426 Location: St. Petersburg, FL
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 7:59 am Post subject: |
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You have to know what size pistons and rings you have . you can't tell by looking at it from the outside .
Fancy air cleaner and bolt on valve covers could be just dress up on a standard 1600 .
The stock 74 air cleaner is much bigger and would look really strange in an earlier car if it fit .
.Gallery ;search ;74 air cleaner =
_________________ 63 two fold rag
66 sedan delivery Type 6
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=569619&highlight=sedan+delivery |
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lojoma Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2012 Posts: 233 Location: Memphis
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:26 am Post subject: |
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Thanks. Right, the cleaner is a lot bigger, so I wondered if anyone had experience with the combination I have using the bigger cleaner. I would like to have the pre-heater etc and get it more stock engine performance if possible. Though I suppose without the vacuum line being available, it would be pointless.... |
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KTPhil Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2006 Posts: 33991 Location: Conejo Valley, CA
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:30 am Post subject: |
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The late large air cleaner will not fit under the decklid. VW bumped it out starting in '67 to make room for ever-larger air cleaners.
Post some pics and we can advise.
Much of the stuff people add are for looks or the perception of performance, while actually diminishing its performance or flexibility. |
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arizonabuckeye Samba Member
Joined: November 10, 2013 Posts: 544 Location: SLC
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 9:39 am Post subject: |
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A well trained ear could probably tell from the sound as well. A stroker sounds quite a bit different from a stock engine. |
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lojoma Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2012 Posts: 233 Location: Memphis
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:53 am Post subject: |
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Not very helpful, I'm sure, but it's the only one I had on my phone! I can get better pics later if it will help.
The sound of the engine is a lower rumble than I would expect, but it has stock muffler with non-peashooter pipes on it. I had thought it was the pipes that made it sound that way, but maybe it's the engine itself. |
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gt1953 Samba Member
Joined: May 08, 2002 Posts: 13846 Location: White Mountains Arizona
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Looks like a stocker with a degreed pulley.
The oil bath air cleaner will out perform that one. _________________ Volkswagen: We tune what we drive.
Numbers Matching VW's are getting harder to find. Source out the most Stock vehicle and keep that way. You will be glad you did.
72 type 1
72 Squareback
({59 Euro bug, 62, 63, 67, 68, 69, 73 type ones 68 & 69 type two, 68 Ghia all sold}) |
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lojoma Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2012 Posts: 233 Location: Memphis
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't think about using an oil bath one. That will work with the 34Pict carb? |
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Fiatdude Samba Member
Joined: April 20, 2009 Posts: 1218 Location: now in MO.
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 2:52 pm Post subject: |
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It is easy to tell
Stock
Not Stock
_________________ Remember, as you travel the highway of life,
For every mile of road, there is 2 miles of ditch |
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blitz64 Samba Member
Joined: October 04, 2009 Posts: 55 Location: Liberty Lake, WA
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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Not sure why anyone would put a generator on a newer engine if it is a 1970's. |
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Aussiebug Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2002 Posts: 2162 Location: Adelaide Australia
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Posted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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It does look like a stock twin port engine with a bit of bling added.
The generator indicates it's probably a 71/72 engine. The car has been converted to 12v with the regulator positioned on the fan housing so the original wiring can be used (all good). And the aftermarket air cleaner would be there because the large VW oval oil bath and the later paper cleaners will not fit under that lid - as pointed out above.
A smaller round (1200) oil bath air cleaner would fit, although these might possiby restrict airflow a little with the (probably) 1600 engine. Plenty of folks using that combo though, so it might work OK, and the oil bath air cleaners do work VERY well. (250cc of any engine oil for the small round type, and 400cc for the larger oval variety).
The engine is probably a stock 1600 as it appears to have a 34PICT/3 or H30/31 carb - both work fine with the 1600. The fractionally larger 34PICT/3 will work OK with a 1776, but will run out of breath with any larger capacity.
If it is a 34PICT/3, I have to ask, do you get the dreaded acceleration stumbles with that 009 distributor? If so, it's because the non-vacuum distributors do NOT work well with the 34PICT/3 carb. You'll get smoother acceleration and better fuel economy with an SVDA (single vacuum double advance) distributor. _________________ Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.vw-resource.com |
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Red Rail Samba Member
Joined: June 19, 2014 Posts: 13 Location: Brighton, TN
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Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:15 am Post subject: |
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Hey lojoma. Great to see someone else on here that is in the area. I live north of Memphis, but I do work in downtown Memphis. |
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Cusser Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2006 Posts: 31360 Location: Hot Arizona
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Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 6:18 am Post subject: Re: How to know if engine is modified? |
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lojoma wrote: |
How to know if engine is modified? |
After 40 years or so, the odds would say: just assume most engines have been modified in some way.
Nothing wrong with a generator, maybe just fit the existing "older" generator stand. _________________ 1970 VW (owned since 1972) and 1971 VW Convertible (owned since 1976), second owner of each. The '71 now has the 1835 engine, swapped from the '70. Second owner of each. 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, 1998 Frontier, 2014 Yukon, 2004 Frontier King Cab. All manual transmission except for the Yukon. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335294 http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/album_page.php?pic_id=335297 |
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lojoma Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2012 Posts: 233 Location: Memphis
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Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 8:35 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for all the opinions!
The engine code is AH...I read elsewhere that makes it a '74 California, but I'm now reading on The Samba's literature that it could be from '71-'74 so thanks for the heads up there. Any other way to narrow down the year, if it matters? Maybe my lack of vacuum port on the manifold?
Yes, the engine sure does stumble with that darn 009, and I am working to remedy that asap. I have ordered a SVDA distributor.
I wondered about the generator, too, but as long as it works.... |
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trektider60 Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2012 Posts: 73 Location: SE Indiana
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Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:03 am Post subject: air filter |
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Here is a pic of my '60 with a 1974 1600 DP. It had a filter just like yours when I purchased it and I found this air filter here on the Samba. A good cleaning and a couple of coats of paint. I need to get the preheat tube on it just for looks. I won't be driving it in cold weather.
_________________ 1960 Indiana Red T1 |
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lojoma Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2012 Posts: 233 Location: Memphis
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Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:08 pm Post subject: Re: air filter |
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trektider60 wrote: |
Here is a pic of my '60 with a 1974 1600 DP. It had a filter just like yours when I purchased it and I found this air filter here on the Samba. A good cleaning and a couple of coats of paint. I need to get the preheat tube on it just for looks. I won't be driving it in cold weather.
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Thanks for the information!! I'l keep an eye out for one! |
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Aussiebug Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2002 Posts: 2162 Location: Adelaide Australia
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Posted: Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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lojoma wrote: |
Thanks for all the opinions!
The engine code is AH...I read elsewhere that makes it a '74 California, but I'm now reading on The Samba's literature that it could be from '71-'74 so thanks for the heads up there. Any other way to narrow down the year, if it matters? Maybe my lack of vacuum port on the manifold?
Yes, the engine sure does stumble with that darn 009, and I am working to remedy that asap. I have ordered a SVDA distributor.
I wondered about the generator, too, but as long as it works.... |
1972 model year
Engine AH 0,000,001 - AH 0,005,900 47 bhp(DIN)1600(USA)
1973 model year
Engine AH 0,005,901 - AH 0,114,418
That's it for the AH engines (the AE series was more common). They were USA only - smogged engines I think (M157 or M240 - anyone?) Outside the USA, the 1600s engines were 50bhp (DIN) in those years.
A vacuum port just under the carb (on the manifold) was only used on semi-auto cars - needed for the electro-vacuum clutch on those cars. A larger vacuum port on the left arm of the manifold was used on bus engines for the vacuum assisted brakes. 1600 bus engines were virtually identical to the bug engines, and continued past 1971 in some countries - they are identified by a couple of extra holes in the case under the oil pump - used for a cross member support bar which is not needed in bugs.
The generators work just fine. The stock bug running in daylight uses around 5 amps for the ignition and a few for a normal stereo. At night with lights and stereo running, you are using around 18-20 amps (depending mostly on headlight bulb wattage), so the 30 amp generator still has around 10 amps left to charge the battery. Using a 50amp alternator (or larger) just gives you a greater reserve of charging amps, and room for a couple of 100watt spot lights and a killer stereo.
I have in fact had 55/60 watt halogens PLUS two 100watt spot lights on my generator bug and the battery stayed charged whilst driving overnight 1200km (14 hours) several times. But it was at it's limits - with a tired battery in need of constant charging I doubt the generator would have kept up. I found that with the 55/60 watt halogen headlights I did not really need the spots anyway, so removed them. Outside the USA, we kept the bulbs and reflector lights so changing to halogens back in the 1970s was a simple bulb swap - GREAT lights with those big 7 inch reflectors.
You know that you can tune out most (probably not all) of the stumbles whilst you wait for your SVDA distributor? Set the timing at 30-32 max at 3000+ rpm, use a 130 or 132.5 main jet and set the accel pump squirt for max squirt and make sure it does not splash on anything on the way down - twist the delivery tube a few degrees if needed.
Also if your engine has the doghouse shroud (it should have on that twin port engine), then the engine WILL repeat WILL run short of cooling air at higher speeds - roughly above 50mph, which is where the engine is working hardest and needs all the cooling it can get. The under-window slots are not enough to get a full load of air into the larger fan at higher revs. You need a slotted cabrio lid, a standoff licence plate with a slightly smaller hole cut behind it, standoff hinges, or crack the lid open with a cut tennis ball over the latch - your engine will thank you for it. _________________ Rob
Rob and Dave's aircooled VW pages
Repairs and maintenance for the home mechanic
http://www.vw-resource.com |
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lojoma Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2012 Posts: 233 Location: Memphis
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:46 am Post subject: |
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Rob, thanks so much for the information. I really enjoy your website.
My engine code is not between the numbers you gave unless I'm misunderstanding something about the code.
I do have the doghouse cooler and had wondered about the amount of cooling I am getting, but I haven't even tried going over 45 with it yet!
So I ideally would be looking for a '63 convertible deck lid? (Edit: I see photos of '63 'verts with the deck lid vents...will see if I can pick one up somewhere!)
Also, looking at an earlier post with the plastic air cleaner, there is a vacuum line going to the manifold; that's what I was asking about. But I now see that (I think) they started that in '72 and that earlier oil baths didn't have that line.
Last edited by lojoma on Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:04 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Miklo ¡Chale!
Joined: August 27, 2008 Posts: 2058 Location: Antelope Valley, Ca
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:02 am Post subject: |
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lojoma wrote: |
[img]So I ideally would be looking for a '63 convertible deck lid? |
Ideally, yes... but expect to pay some good dough for one. _________________ ✠Miklo✠
'55 Type1 "Ozma"
'66 Type1 "Charlotte" RIP
Antelope Valley's Mobile Air-Cooled Guru
Dr OnHolliday wrote: |
As I remember it, lowriding was not one of the criteria that Adolf gave to Dr. Porsche... |
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lojoma Samba Member
Joined: May 28, 2012 Posts: 233 Location: Memphis
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Posted: Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:16 am Post subject: |
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VeeDubDoug wrote: |
lojoma wrote: |
[img]So I ideally would be looking for a '63 convertible deck lid? |
Ideally, yes... but expect to pay some good dough for one. |
Holy cow, you weren't kidding on the price. Will scour junkyards I guess or just keep the speed down!
Would it have to be specifically a '63 deck lid? Not sure how much variation there is there. (Edit: grossly visually it looks like 59-63 all have the same lid, but correct me if I'm wrong on that.) |
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