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James Dwan
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Joined: July 16, 2004
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Location: Tejas
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 Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:34 am Post subject: Front end is very wobbly all of a sudden _ FIXED |
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I have been meaning to replace my ball joints for a while and am wondering if the symptoms I am experiencing are because I waited too long or if it something else.
Last week I noticed the bus seems like it is being pulled from left to right while driving in first and second. I don't feel it so much in 3rd or 4th.
The front left tire was going bald since the alignment is off so I replaced it, didn't help. I also feel like the brakes are dragging so I am wondering if that could be it but I can't check anything until Sunday. I plan on checking the ball joints per the Bentley, making sure everything is tight and checking all the brakes.
Has anyone else experienced wobbliness? If so what was the cause?
Also a month ago when I was turning into the parking spot, I cut the wheel sharply to the right and the front end vibrated and shook until I straightened out the wheel. I assumed it was the bald front left tire but now I am wondering if it is related to the squirrelyness. I know zero about the front end except for the steering dampener I replaced
This is the '77 Bay. Thanks in advance.
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Last edited by James Dwan on Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:44 am; edited 1 time in total |
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aeromech
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Joined: January 24, 2006
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Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 8:47 am Post subject: |
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Could be a combination of things. I'd jack up the front and have a friend turn the wheel back and forth roughly 60 degrees while watching the steering works underneath. Could be a bad drag link or maybe the center pin or a steering gearbox or tie rod ends or wheel bearings or a loose front beam or bad ball joints or bad tires or bad alignment ......
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James Dwan
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Joined: July 16, 2004
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Location: Tejas
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:22 am Post subject: |
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Yes indeed. My experience with these vehicles tells me that it could be one of the above or a combination of all to a certain degree.
My main concern is safety. I can handle the steering wheel slop and the annoyance but if it is the ball joints about to go out, I'd rather just park it untilI can get the parts. It's my daily driver so I am pretty concerned.
Does the wobbliness portend imminent ball joint failure? What are the symptoms of ball joints on the verge of failure? I was under the impression that steering would be near impossible and there would be more clicking.
Thanks.
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aeromech
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 9:33 am Post subject: |
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In my experience, ball joints and rear wheel bearings rarely fail. I suggest that you not get too wrapped up thinking about ball joints right now. Raise the front and do what I said. Inspect all the workings. I'm seeing more and more bad steering gearboxes, drag links, and center pins than other parts failing. Once off the ground grab each front wheel and move it up and down, left and right. There should be no play.
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James Dwan
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Location: Tejas
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 10:13 am Post subject: |
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Will do. Thanks 
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DAC
TCB
'59 23 Window Deluxe
'73/'77 Westfakia
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SGKent 
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:08 am Post subject: |
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until you go thru the front end and find the problem you should not drive it.
Start with the simple things - check the lug nuts, wheel bearings for play, turn the wheel all the way left and right to see if anything is rubbing on the frame or sway bar for example, check the bolts that hold the frame to the bus, check the shocks to be sure they are bolted on, look at the horns at the top of the beam to be sure neither has disintegrated from rust.
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wcfvw69
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 11:29 am Post subject: |
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I also agree that you should NOT drive that until you isolate what the problem is. Do you have anybody that knows these bus's or is qualified to inspect it?
If not, you may tow it to a shop that's familiar with these old VW's and see what they'd charge to do a quick inspection. It would be $ well spent vs. an accident.
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James Dwan
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:02 pm Post subject: |
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Yes I do, I am going to pick up an emergency flasher switch from him tomorrow but he doesn't do work on Saturdays just sells parts until noon.
No choice, I'll have to drive it to get home from work I've been driving it like this for a week. If I can't diagnose it Sunday, I'll have it towed to his shop.
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Brian
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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When I lifted my bug, I had the front end aligned. As soon as I got to 40mph the front end started to shake and shake until I thought I was going to flip.
Turned out that the steering dampener was shot. Replaced and was all good.
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James Dwan
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:28 pm Post subject: |
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That was the last thing I replaced a few years ago. Before that the steering box coupler was torn. I've never felt anything like this before. It's like some ginormous unseen hand is wiggling the front as I drive. I can feel it in the steering wheel as well.
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DAC
TCB
'59 23 Window Deluxe
'73/'77 Westfakia
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"Many dreams come true, and some have silver linings.
I live for my dreams and a pocket full of gold. Acapulco gold!" Robert Plant |
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Tcash
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:58 pm Post subject: |
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Types of things to look for.
Link
Link
Link
Good Luck
Tcash
Make sure the lug nuts are tight also. |
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aeromech
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Joined: January 24, 2006
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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You might inspect your tire tread. Sometimes you'll get a bubble
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wcfvw69
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 3:02 pm Post subject: |
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| aeromech wrote: |
| You might inspect your tire tread. Sometimes you'll get a bubble |
I was thinking the same thing. Maybe the tire that you didn't replace is separating in the cords, thus the bubble Gary's talking about.
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jakokombi
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| Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Broken sway bar end brackets will produce a wicked shimmy.
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James Dwan
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| Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 9:53 am Post subject: |
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Well I have it on jack stands and had the wife rotate the wheel until her arms got tired. Other than the obvious need for ball joint replacement (boots torn and grease leaking out) I saw nothing out of the ordinary and no play anywhere. There is a massive dent in the steering dampener but I don't know if that would cause this issue.
I also did not feel any irregularities on either of the front tires. And no noticeable movement of the wheels when trying to pull them at 12 and 6 o'clock.
However I did notice that there is absolutely no resistance in the steering wheel. I mean like none whatsoever.
I am going to try and adjust it but I am thinking that I have found the problem.
Thoughts?
_________________
DAC
TCB
'59 23 Window Deluxe
'73/'77 Westfakia
'78 SuperVert
"Many dreams come true, and some have silver linings.
I live for my dreams and a pocket full of gold. Acapulco gold!" Robert Plant |
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SGKent
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| Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:01 am Post subject: |
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was the dent in the damper when it was installed or did something hit it? It kinda sounds like the damper is damaged internally as you should feel the damper resistance when you turn the wheels.
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James Dwan
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| Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 10:42 am Post subject: |
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Something must have hit it. The dent is on the bottom Is there a way to test it?
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DAC
TCB
'59 23 Window Deluxe
'73/'77 Westfakia
'78 SuperVert
"Many dreams come true, and some have silver linings.
I live for my dreams and a pocket full of gold. Acapulco gold!" Robert Plant |
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airschooled
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Location: on a bike ride somewhere
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| Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 11:08 am Post subject: |
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| James Dwan wrote: |
| Something must have hit it. The dent is on the bottom Is there a way to test it? |
Take it off and compress it. It should feel smooth and resistant through the entire range of motion. If it chunks, replace it. If it grinds, replace it, if it has any "free play" anywhere other than maybe an inch on the fully extended/retracted positions, replace it. They're cheap, and Wolfsburg West has good quality units.
Now, I doubt the steering damper could cause your original issues, but you know something hit it. You've found a forensic path to veer down now, and that's cause for investigation into your tie rods; they happen to be some of the lowest-hanging parts of your bus. If one of them was hit, it could be bent and that would completely upset your wheels' toe angle. If you confirm that one is bent, a new tie rod is the only replacement, do not try to bend them back into straightness. Toe is important for straight tracking, as well as predictable handling and low rolling resistance.
A bent tie rod could cause a dragging feeling, shuttering in turns, and rapidly-wearing tires. I'm not saying that's what your problem is, but you wouldn't be wasting time inspecting them for straightness. A professional alignment may be in your future, if you find anything out of whack. If you don't see any bends, you can still check for an abnormal toe angle with minimal tools. It's not perfect, but it will tell you if you're in the ballpark:
Get two yardsticks, or other flat stock. In a flat empty parking lot, get the bus going 5-10mph in neutral, then bring it to a stop with the handbrake only. Get out of the car smoothly without upsetting the steering wheel or suspension, then measure the distance between the frontmost point of the rims, using the two sticks as sliding rulers. Now measure between the rearmost point of the rims. Repeat this procedure two to four times, and average out the results. Ballpark toe with this method is 0" to 1/8" shorter in front, meaning just the slightest bit of toe IN in the front. Again, I do this a few times to compensate for bent rims, errors in measurement, and pavement inconsistencies.
Good luck!
Robbie
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Tom Powell
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| Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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| James Dwan wrote: |
... absolutely no resistance in the steering wheel. I mean like none whatsoever.
I am going to try and adjust it but I am thinking that I have found the problem.
Thoughts? |
I don't have that much experience with steering boxes and will be installing a rebuilt box in my '69 camper.
FWIH:
There should be some slight resistance as the steering wheel moves through center. Too much adjusting can destroy the "worm". StaLube GL-4 is a good grease for the steering box. Steering boxes go dry and constant cross winds will wear out the steering box components. There are a lot of steering box threads and fewer replacements.
Aloha
tp
Last edited by Tom Powell on Sun Aug 30, 2015 1:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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beatles4
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| Posted: Sun Aug 30, 2015 12:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Tom Powell wrote: |
| James Dwan wrote: |
... absolutely no resistance in the steering wheel. I mean like none whatsoever.
I am going to try and adjust it but I am thinking that I have found the problem.
Thoughts? |
I don't have that much experience with steering boxes and will be installing a rebuilt box in my '69 camper.
FWIH:
There should be some slight resistance as the steering wheel moves through center. Too much adjusting can destroy the "worm". StaLube GL-4 is a good grease for the steering box. Steering boxes go dry and constant cross winds will wear out the steering box components. There a lot of steering box threads and fewer replacements.
Aloha
tp |
Would you happen to have some photos on how to lube up the steering box?
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