'56 oval gas tank removal

[Eric&Barb]

Yup, just because you can not see it, does not mean it is not there.
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[jediboss]

Aloha Folks (Eric-Jrb-Gwd)- first thank you as always for all your help. I feel like I am letting you all down. Let me say, I should have said this from the get go, I volunteer at a senior citizen organization in Northern, CA. It has been a big part of my life and was one of the reasons after college I did not return home to the islands. A friend of mine in this organization and I thought for years that it would be cool to start a car show and share with others about our organization because we are all getting older as they say. The idea was to have domestic and imports 1973 and before. Well, for the first 4 years it was only domestic cars. Finally this is our Fifth year, we have had steady growth and a lot of enthusiasm, unfortunately it is this coming weekend (9/12)! Because my wife and I were care givers for sometime the little car sat in the garage. I was blessed to have Ray at Volks Authority in San Jose, CA rebuild my original transmission and most of the engine as well as to go through all my brakes with original VW parts before Volks closed up and we became caregivers.

So fast forward, I am trying to learn to do what I can and plus get the little car up and running. This maybe a pipe-dream, I understand. Knowing there is a time limit, I tried to get the fuel valve to come apart but I do not have a buddy that is good with this stuff close by.

Question: if the valve is freely turning between positions 1-2-3, could the fuel valve still be good for operation? And this is a "green" question in theory, if there is no blockage in the valve can you put in position #1 and shoot air into the long brass stem and it will come out of the back? Or does it not work this way? I am also considering just biting the bullet and trying to find a place in my area that might have a new one for now that I could install and at least get up and running.

Eric- Do not worry, I want to learn how to rebuild my original valve, it really cleaned up nicely!

Also the gas tank has cleaned up well too. Maybe in the future I will get it boiled but it looks like the rust-scale is all out of it and the metal on my tank is very solid, no holes. And now that I know how to take out the tank because of all of your help, it will not be a daunting task the next time!

The fuel line in the back looks very good, I think Ray had replaced it with the correct German rubber hosing when he had worked on my engine. Maybe all I need to do is remove it at one end and blow air through the line to make sure all is good.

Thank you all and look forward to more tidbits and advice and if my current fuel valve could be good for operation.
Mahalo!

[Eric&Barb]

Well you could re-install the valve with the other parts, put in a gallon of fuel in the tank and see if it leaks over night. If it stays leak free, install the tank, fill it up, but keep checking every few days to make sure it does not fail. After about a week if it has not leaked it should be good for as long as it will.
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[jediboss]

Aloha Eric- So, first, if this fuel valve-tap is still good, I should be able to install it as you said, put it in the #3 position and it should not leak. Just to test it, if I switch it to say the reserve or #2 position, fuel should come out, correct? And back in the off position, #3 it should not leak at all. I hope I got that correct?

Thanks again! Mahalo!

[Eric&Barb]

Well if it is switched to reserve full might not come out due to the fuel level might be below the reserve tube tip.

Yes, in the off position it should not let out fuel.
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[jediboss]

Aloha Jrb & Folks, I just did a test where I put my original fuel tap with a new crush washer and the copper screen on and installed it to the gas tank along with new fuel line and a fuel filter right under the tank. Also, I had a chance to blow some air in the fuel line by the tank side, I undid the connection for the metal fuel line just before the fuel pump. I was glad to see some fuel come out, so the line is not blocked. So, I put the fuel tap in the #2 position, the reserve setting because I only put in 1 gal of gas. I put a little gas in the carb with flap all the way open, I hope that is correct?

I also put in a new battery as well. So, I tried to start the little car and and one point almost did, ran for a few seconds. I did not secure the tank I just had it in loosely. When I took a look at the filter under the tank, I noticed no fuel in it.

Even though the valve turns freely now between 1-2-3, I have a feeling it is clogged and needs to be replaced and/or rebuilt.

I just saw Jrb that you used a C-Clamp and Socket. Wonder how you did this. My C-Clamp has a swivel on one side. Is yours stationary on both ends? Also, did you create a jig or something for the side opposite where you put the socket? As you know it is awkward on the end where the fuel line attaches and I do not want to hurt it-break off the end.

Look forward to hearing from you. Thanks so much! Mahalo!

[jediboss]

Aloha Folks-

Thank you all for your help thus far! Jrb- I am so glad that I re-read all the comments and found yours again, I was able to finally get a clamp to work with a socket to get the metal ring off! Then things shot in the air but I recovered them all!

Question, my wife is helping me and has been able to get the old rubber seal out that was still pretty pliable. The top 3 holes are all blocked up! She got #1 open and I was able to spray some Berryman Carb cleaner done the long brass tube and it came out, so it is all clear. Working on the #2 brass tube which I guess is the reserve setting. But lastly, the 3rd hole in the middle, it is quite blocked up, is it all right to use a paper clip to poke-pry at it and should it go right through to the other side where the fuel hole attaches? I just want to make sure that we do not poke through something we are not supposed to!

Thanks again everyone! Mahalo!

[Eric&Barb]

The seal and the sealing surfaces the seal seats against are the only parts you can easily damage in there. You could even use a small drill bit turned by finger tips to work the gunk out of each of those passages.
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[jediboss]

Aloha Eric- Thanks for that! The wife broke through with the paper clip! Now, as for the graphite-lube, do you only lube up both sides of that one metal piece (I think it is the selector) that touches the rubber seal on one side and touches a metal piece on the other? Was not sure if everything needed the graphite lube (rubber seal, spring, etc..) Thank you for your help as always. Mahalo!

[Eric&Barb]

Lube up everything that moves, kind of like sex you are trying to reduce friction...
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[jediboss]

Aloha Eric! LOL! I need a good laugh. Out of everything that was kicking my butt, it was that fuel tap-valve...Well it got lubed and put back together, I do not know how (or I should say, recall) but it works! Smooth like butter.

To you, RareAir, Jrb and all those that replied I thank you. At 8:30pm tonight I put on the fuel tap to the tank, set it in but did not secure it yet. Put a gallon of fresh gas in the tank, no leaks but will check tomorrow. I put a little starter fluid into the carb's chamber and after a couple of times, she fired up! I have not enjoyed the sound of this car in years. Called the wife from the garage and said do you hear this! She replied, "is that the wash you are doing..." Thank God she has a sense of humor and good with tedious things like cleaning out all the junk in that fuel tap. I let the car run for about 5-10mins to get the oil flowing again!

I then looked under the gas tank and noticed the clean fuel running through the filter RareAir suggested be installed.

One thing did come up and I am sure it is a small thing compared to the whole gas tank-fuel valve thing...the fuel pump was leaking a little. I was told this could happen as it has sat for years without fuel going through it. The folks at WW said many times the diaphragm dries out and shrinks a little. I think they said it is made out of rubber.

Question: is this an easy fix and can I do it with the fuel pump in?

Thank you all again, such a blessing. Look forward to your advice about the leaking fuel pump and procedure on how to fix it. Mahalo!

[BulliBill]

Yep! sounds like the fuel pump will be your next rebuild project. Read up on the threads about rebuilding these, and realize that the new diaphragm (try to locate an NOS 36hp-style German "Effe" or "Ebbe" brand diaphragm preferably in a complete rebuild kit) needs to be pre-tensioned a bit before the fuel pump top is reattached. VW and their dealerships had a simple special tool for this, but if you do your research (here in the Samba.com discussion threads or in the Bentley Workshop Manual or even the "Idiot" guide) you'll discover how to make your own tool. This step is very important, don't skip it. If you can't handle this step and using the tool, just trade your pump as a "core" plus some cash to someone on here that can restore your pump properly. Pumps can make you very happy or sad. Happy with a well-built pump is much better!

Bill
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I'm looking for these license plate frames for my fleet:
Coeur D'Alene - Lake Shore Volkswagen
Mission VW - San Fernando
Thornton VW - Stockton

Thanks for any help!

[Eric&Barb]

In situ? No, it needs to be taken completely apart to rebuild properly.

At very least you need to take it apart to inspect everything.

Do get yourself a copy of the workshop manual ASAP. Search around a bit on line if need be to find a copy in good used condition, but get one.

http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/wolfsburg_new/accessories/books.cfm
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[jediboss]

Aloha Bill! Was thinking about you and all the folks I met some years ago at Ray's Volks Authority! I remember you and Tom coming out from the Midwest for the Kelly Park Show, then of course Tom came out our way for good.

I have a couple of questions and hope you can advise me. Just to update this info, I have a judson charger. In fact it was one of Ray's first rebuilds of one, he said I was the guinea pig! It came out great. I think he had to do something with my carb I do not think he had to do anything with my original fuel pump but I could be mistaken.

Any how, you-Ray-Tom helped me to put together a "kit" of items that I should always have on me when I travel. So 7-8yrs ago I purchased a NOS-or Rebuilt fuel pump, here are the pictures:

The person I got it from was not sure if it was NOS or rebuilt. So my question is, would this be all right for now, to "plug and play" as they say into my current system until I can get the part you mentioned and rebuild my original pump?

Thanks again. Take care now. Mahalo!

[jediboss]

Aloha Eric- I will definitely be getting one of those Bently manuals. I hope you can see the photos I took of this spare fuel pump I have and see if it is the correct one and if I could install it for right now? Also, is there any specific torque requirements for installing the pump? Thanks again! Mahalo!

[Eric&Barb]

How does the white lithium grease feel. After a good long while it tends to turn like concrete.

If the grease still feels like grease and if the pump was rebuilt properly, and if a new diaphragm was installed, it should be a plug and play.
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[Eric&Barb]

[jediboss]

Aloha Eric, yes the grease still feels like grease, nice and smooth. So I will put the fuel tap to off, remove the two metal fuel lines and take off the current one and bolt on the "new" one with the torque specs you gave me. Thanks again! Mahalo!

[jediboss]

Aloha Eric- forgot to ask, when swapping out the fuel pumps, as I take off the current one, this there any thing, pressure wise coming from the engine block? For example when I was taking apart the fuel tap, you folks reminded me it was "spring-loaded," so I just want to be ready for anything when taking off the pump. Thanks again. Mahalo!

[Eric&Barb]

Not when taking off the pump.

When taking the pump apart there are some springs.
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