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jdub63
Samba Member
Joined: April 06, 2008
Posts: 225
Location: Azle
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 Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:41 am Post subject: Brake Warning Light Stays On + |
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I recently rebuilt my entire brake system on my 73 Super Beetle and I have a couple of issues.
1. The brake warning light stays on until I depress the brake pedal then it turns off
2. If I hold the brake pedal down for a short period, like at a stop light, one or some of the brakes are slow to release once I let off the pedal
As part of the rebuild I installed new master cylinder, wheel cylinders, and a new disc brake setup on the front.
Any suggested trouble shooting procedures or thoughts would be appreciated.
thanks,
Jdub |
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sjbartnik
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Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 5998
Location: Brooklyn
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:34 am Post subject: Re: Brake Warning Light Stays On + |
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| jdub63 wrote: |
I recently rebuilt my entire brake system on my 73 Super Beetle and I have a couple of issues.
1. The brake warning light stays on until I depress the brake pedal then it turns off |
You have wired your brake switches and/or brake warning light incorrectly. Find the wiring diagram for your car in the Technical section above and then make your wiring look like that.
| Quote: |
2. If I hold the brake pedal down for a short period, like at a stop light, one or some of the brakes are slow to release once I let off the pedal
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Did you replace the rubber hoses at all 4 wheels?
If not, do so.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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jdub63
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Joined: April 06, 2008
Posts: 225
Location: Azle
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:03 am Post subject: |
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I'll check the wiring again, unless the there's a color mix match (black w/ red stripe to red) all the wires were installed red to red / black to black / ect.
All the hoses have been replaced, and the hard lines were cleaned out during the rebuild. |
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Air-Cooled Head
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Joined: October 15, 2002
Posts: 4070
Location: Chicago Suburbs
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:23 am Post subject: Re: Brake Warning Light Stays On + |
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| jdub63 wrote: |
2. If I hold the brake pedal down for a short period, like at a stop light, one or some of the brakes are slow to release once I let off the pedal
Jdub |
How do you know this?
This is almost always a symptom of internally swollen rubber lines. Since you say all rubber hoses were changed, I ask; How do you know the above statement is true? Did you get the car up on jackstands and test your theory?
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sjbartnik
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Joined: September 01, 2011
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Location: Brooklyn
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 11:24 am Post subject: |
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| jdub63 wrote: |
I'll check the wiring again, unless the there's a color mix match (black w/ red stripe to red) all the wires were installed red to red / black to black / ect.
All the hoses have been replaced, and the hard lines were cleaned out during the rebuild. |
Hmm weird. Did you replace the hardware for the rear brakes (return springs)?
Did you use a master cylinder designed to work with disc brakes?
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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ROCKOROD71
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Joined: January 18, 2012
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| Posted: Mon Aug 31, 2015 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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This is as easy as it gets:
http://www.speedyjim.net/schem/2brake.gif
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jdub63
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Joined: April 06, 2008
Posts: 225
Location: Azle
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:10 am Post subject: |
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I believe the wiring is per the diagram. I'll check the switches, I want to make sure the aftermarket pieces are operating properly.
I haven't been able to check it yet, but is the plug to the back of the warning light keyed or can it be installed wrong/backwards?
It was my understanding if I have a universal master cylinder, it works with Drum/Drum or my Disc/Drum setup. |
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sb001
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Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:06 am Post subject: |
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First off do you have the brake warning light with 3 wires or 5 wires?
But yes they are keyed on the switch, it is hard to see though.
On the 3 prong switch, center is the ground (brown) then around the edge you will have a "K" (red wire) and 15 (black wire.) Keys are etched into the plastic housing.
If 5 prong try this
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Dwayne1m
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Ok, I must be a dumb dumb. What is a "brake warning light"? I know of a hand brake light, but I never heard of a brake warning light. Something year specific? What is it warning you of? |
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sb001
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Dwayne1m wrote: |
| Ok, I must be a dumb dumb. What is a "brake warning light"? I know of a hand brake light, but I never heard of a brake warning light. Something year specific? What is it warning you of? |
What you are calling the "hand brake light" has nothing to do with the hand brake. It is a light to warn you when one of your brake systems--front or rear in the later dual brake system setups--has failed (although you will know it immediately anyway since the pedal will have more travel and it will take stronger pressure and further distance to stop, so really it's a redundant light.)
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I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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Dwayne1m
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| If that "brake light" is not part of the hand brake, then what are the wires and switch at my hand brake for? |
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sjbartnik
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Location: Brooklyn
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Dwayne1m wrote: |
| If that "brake light" is not part of the hand brake, then what are the wires and switch at my hand brake for? |
I think sb's point is that while there is a switch at the handbrake to illuminate the light when the handbrake is on, that's not the light's primary function. The primary function is as a warning if one of your brake circuits fails which will be accompanied by extra pedal travel, extra braking effort required, and increased stopping distances.
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1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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busdaddy
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Dwayne1m wrote: |
| If that "brake light" is not part of the hand brake, then what are the wires and switch at my hand brake for? |
What year is your car?
As for the OP, did you get new switches as well when you got that master cylinder?, if yes read this: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=635172
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sb001
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Location: NW Arkansas
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| Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Dwayne1m wrote: |
| If that "brake light" is not part of the hand brake, then what are the wires and switch at my hand brake for? |
aah my bad you have a later year model where that light stays on until you release the handbrake, earlier year models don't have that function, the light is just for the dual brake circuit system. Nothing on those to tell you the hand brake is on except common sense 
_________________
I'm the humblest guy on this board.
1969 autostick sedan, family owned since new
1600 SP engine
Solex 30 PICT 3 carburetor
Bosch 113905205AE autostick distributor |
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Dwayne1m
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Posts: 3538
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:56 am Post subject: |
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| busdaddy wrote: |
| Dwayne1m wrote: |
| If that "brake light" is not part of the hand brake, then what are the wires and switch at my hand brake for? |
What year is your car?
1978. Also have a 74 with the same setup.
As for the OP, did you get new switches as well when you got that master cylinder?, if yes read this: http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=635172 |
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jdub63
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Posts: 225
Location: Azle
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| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:11 am Post subject: |
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That's what I was thinking, guess I'll clean up the old ones and re-install them. I think nearly every new switch I've installed during this rebuild has had a problem.
thanks,
jdub |
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jdub63
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Joined: April 06, 2008
Posts: 225
Location: Azle
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| Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:16 am Post subject: |
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| sb001 wrote: |
First off do you have the brake warning light with 3 wires or 5 wires?
But yes they are keyed on the switch, it is hard to see though.
On the 3 prong switch, center is the ground (brown) then around the edge you will have a "K" (red wire) and 15 (black wire.) Keys are etched into the plastic housing.
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SB, Thanks for the info, my warning light is more of a circuit board connection rather than multiple prongs.
I think Busdaddy has it correct with the bad switches on the M/C |
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jdub63
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Joined: April 06, 2008
Posts: 225
Location: Azle
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| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Warning Light Stays On + |
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| jdub63 wrote: |
2. If I hold the brake pedal down for a short period, like at a stop light, one or some of the brakes are slow to release once I let off the pedal
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I found the issue on the slow release of the brakes. As part of the rebuild I powder coated the entire rotor. This is common practice as the first couple times you use the brakes the powder just wears off where the pads contact the rotor. My issue was short check out rides, I didn't get all the powder wore off so as I held the pedal down the melted powder was "gluing" the pads to the rotors. Once I took it out and really heated up the brakes everything worked fine. |
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jdub63
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Posts: 225
Location: Azle
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| Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Brake Warning Light Stays On + |
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By changing both the warning switches, I solved the warning light issues. I reinstalled one of the OEM switches and ordered an OEM replacement for the second switch. Both of the "new" switches went into the trash.
| jdub63 wrote: |
1. The brake warning light stays on until I depress the brake pedal then it turns off
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